March 13, 2025
SARAH ABO: James, I think we've got you there now; you probably missed what we were just talking about there, really about the US, I suppose, now becoming quite the unreliable ally for Australia despite our 74-year alliance. Is there any point in trying to stand up to Trump? We saw Zelenskyy try to do that in the Oval Office; it didn't go down well for him. How do you stand up to a man who so often dictates the terms?
JAMES PATERSON: Well I think when it comes to something like the steel and aluminium tariffs, the workers and families in those industries deserve our best efforts. We can't guarantee what President Trump is going to do, but we can guarantee that we put our best foot forward. And by not getting on the plane and flying to Washington D.C., our Prime Minister has frankly engaged in a very low-energy attempt to try and persuade the President. We didn't even send our Trade Minister to Washington D.C. to meet with his partner.
ABO: Would it have made a difference though, James?
PATERSON: I think America is a reliable ally, look, we don't know whether it would have made a difference, but we should have at least tried. We would have put a better foot forward if we had got on the plane and gone over there and argued the case with him, and we might have been in a better position if we didn't have an Ambassador who insulted the President so many times publicly in the past. We've got to maximise our chance of success here, and workers deserve nothing less. I think America is still a reliable ally, but obviously, President Trump is taking a very different approach to trade than previous Presidents have.
ABO: How are you feeling, though, James, I guess, about what else might be on the President's hit list? I mean, the reality really is that steel and aluminium impacts will be minimal at most here in Australia. If he targets agriculture, beef, I mean, that is a real concern.
PATERSON: I think there is a real risk of that. President Trump sincerely believes in tariffs. He sincerely believes in protectionism. He thinks that's going to make America great again. And what we have to do in those circumstances is, one, put our best case forward to him and his administration that Australia is different, that we should be exempt. We got that before. When he was last President, we secured those exemptions. But the second thing we need to do is make ourselves as competitive and efficient as possible. We need to make energy affordable again. We need to reduce taxes and red tape and regulation. We can't make ourselves less competitive and still think we're going to be able to earn a good living in the world.
ABO: That would hurt a lot of people if those two were taken off the table in terms of tariffs. But James, also AUKUS, has been thrown around here, potentially being a risk. Can we really rely on the US to deliver on our most significant, most expensive defence project here?
PATERSON: I am not concerned about AUKUS. I have been to Washington D.C., I have met with senior members of the Trump administration, I have talked to them about AUKUS. They are a reliable ally when it comes to military and security and AUKUS is a no-fail mission for both Australia and the United States. We're working together to try and prevent conflict in the region through deterrence, and if either falters or fails, it's bad for both of us. It's in our shared interest and our shared values to make this project work, and we're putting everything into it, and I'm confident it will.
HEIDI MURPHY: But James, what makes you so sure that the President would stick with something this time? He might just change his mind tomorrow. Why are you so sure he's reliable on this?
ABO: It's possible, right?
PATERSON: Well, when it comes to certifying whether the US Navy can give US Virginia-class submarines to Australia, it will actually be the next President that makes that decision, not this President. What happens on this President's watch is that Australia has injected, over the four years, billions of dollars into the American submarine industrial base to help them build more submarines faster so they can afford to give us submarines in the future. And it will actually be the next President that signs on the dotted line that they can give us those submarines and still keep enough subs for the Americans in the water.
MURPHY: We probably need a fallback plan. that's all
ABO: I guess, I guess the one thing we do know about Trump is that money talks. Guys, we have run out of time; thank you so much for joining me, I appreciate it.
ENDS
