November 24, 2022
Thursday 24 November 2022
Sky News Afternoon Agenda
Subjects: Senate Select Committee on Foreign Interference Through Social Media, repatriation from Syria, Victorian election
Kieran Gilbert:
A Senate committee examining the dangers of foreign interference through social media will be re-established after it lapsed at the end of the last parliament. It will resume its work examining the way in which social media applications have been weaponised with the intent to interfere in our democracy. Before the election, the committee produced an interim report but was unable to deliver a final report after the change of government. Let's bring in the Victorian Liberal Senator James Paterson, who is the Shadow Minister for Cyber Security and Countering Foreign Interference. Senator Paterson, thanks for your time. Did you have cross-party support in re-establishing this committee?
James Paterson:
I certainly have, Kieran, and that's very welcome. It was a recommendation of the bipartisan committee in the previous parliament led by Senator Jenny McAllister and Senator Jim Molan, that because they were unable to proceed beyond their interim report to produce a final report that the new parliament should re-establish the committee. And I'm pleased that today it passed with the support of all parties in the Senate chamber and without opposition, because dealing with this issue, which goes to the heart of our nation as a liberal democracy, should be something that is above and beyond politics. And that's certainly how I intend to conduct myself as a member of the committee.
Kieran Gilbert:
And what specifically, for our viewers who might not be familiar with this notion of social media being weaponised, talk us through it. What is the main focus here in trying to stop would-be adversaries?
James Paterson:
I have two major concerns,Kieran. The first is the weaponisation of misinformation and disinformation,particularly on Western headquartered social media platforms such as Twitter, YouTube and Facebook. This is where authoritarian states seek to influence our democracy and ultimately the decisions that we make as sovereign countries and our elections by pumping our system full of false information,deliberately false information, to try and mislead voters and mislead the public and shape our public opinion and debate. This should not be allowed to happen. It is toxic and corrosive to our democratic institutions and our strength as a liberal democracy.
The second issue I'm equally concerned about is the way in which social media platforms are being used to intimidate and harass and coerce people into silence, particularly if they are involved in sensitive international human rights issues. There are two recent examples of this. One is Iranian diaspora community members in Australia being harassed because of their criticism of the Iranian regime after its shocking crackdown on the Iranian people. And the other is researchers, journalists and activists who are working on Chinese human rights issues, in particular in relation to Uyghurs in Xinjiang who are being targeted and singled out for personalised, individualised harassment, as was powerfully demonstrated in a recent ASPI report. And this includes Australians working on these issues.That's totally unacceptable. Unfortunately, it doesn't just occur on those Western social media platforms. It also occurs on social media platforms who are headquartered in authoritarian countries. WeChat and TikTok are two very good examples of that. So the committee will be examining all of these issues.
Kieran Gilbert:
Senator Paterson, on another matter, I have to apologise to our viewers, the Home Affairs Minister. I did say that Clare O'Neil would be joining us this half hour. Unfortunately, she's been tied up in another commitment. So Claire O'Neil won't be appearing on the program, as I had indicated earlier. So apologies for that. But Senator Paterson,the good news is the Home Affairs Minister will be heading to western Sydney to meet with three of the local mayors who have expressed their concerns about the repatriation of ISIS brides and the children of those of those women.Initially, the offer was for a Zoom meeting. It appears the Minister has thought better of that. Do you welcome the fact that she is going now to meet with those mayors and hear their concerns?
James Paterson:
Yes, Kieran, I do. I welcome that decision. It is important when governments make decisions like this that have a profound impact on the lives of Australians, that they listen to those who are most affected by it most directly. And so it is very important that the Minister has done that. I believe those mayors are very sincere in their concerns and it's possible the government will be able to allay their fears,but they certainly won't be able to do that if they are unwilling or unable to meet with them. It is unfortunate, of course, that the Minister's meeting only comes after, frankly, quite a spirited campaign by the mayors, by their local member, Dai Le, by the shadow home affairs minister Karen Andrews, and by questions from the media. It shouldn't take all that pressure and all that effort for the Minister to be willing to do that. But nonetheless, I think it's important that she now has agreed to do so.
Kieran Gilbert:
And when it comes to the broader issue of repatriating those citizens, what's your read on the security implications of that? I know that you are a member of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security. You probably can't go into everything here in terms of the intelligence around it. But can you understand why some of the locals, the mayors concerned are worried because many of the refugees in that region fled the likes of IS?
James Paterson:
Kieran, I have been briefed on these matters, and it would obviously be inappropriate and unlawful for me to talk about classified material. I think the burden really is here on the government to publicly explain what steps took place to consider the safety and the impact on Australians of bringing these people home and on the mitigations that have put in place. For example, what additional resources have they provided to our law enforcement, intelligence and security agencies if these people require monitoring and if they are not eligible for any control orders or other legal mechanisms of surveillance? If that is the case, then it's important that additional resources are provided because it would be inappropriate if these agencies, who are very busy and have many other challenges to tackle, have to take resources off other missions to focus on this problem. The government hasn't provided an adequate public explanation, in my view. The government has made a very consequential decision. It may believe that it is the right decision, but the Australian people are entitled to understand what that decision was based on and for the justification and explanation of that decision. And that has been lacking.
Kieran Gilbert:
Yeah, indeed. Well, the good news is that that the minister will show up, hopefully for those mayors, unlike the appearance on this program today. Now, the Victorian election this weekend,what's your read on things? It looks like there is a swing against the government, but probably not enough to get the Liberals across the line as a as a Victorian yourself. How do you see things over the coming 24, 48 hours?
James Paterson:
Kieran, when I was in Melbourne last week I visited about a half a dozen of our candidates who were on pre-poll booths with an extraordinary amount of early voting taking place, in Kew and Hawthorn and Albert Park and Caulfield and Nepean, in Hastings and Yan Yean. And my sense from spending some time with those booths and talking to voters as they came in is there's a very strong desire for change. People are very angry with the state government and very angry with what's happened, particularly in the last few years, particularly in response to COVID and the lockdowns and the enormous impact that's had on individuals and small businesses and communities and young people and their mental health. They're very angry with the government. They're very angry with the Premier. And I think they're going to send a very strong message to the state government on the weekend. Just how strong that is, we will find out on the weekend. Certainly the state government has a very large majority, but I suspect they'll be in for a shock on election night and that some of those swings will come in very non-traditional places and unexpected places. And the communities which they've taken for granted for many years, particularly in the west and the north of Melbourne, who they have frankly treated as if they don't need to do anything to earn their votes might be the ones that send the strongest message of all.
Kieran Gilbert:
Senator Paterson, appreciate your time. Talk to you soon.
James Paterson:
Thanks, Kieran.
ENDS
