April 10, 2023
Monday 10 April 2023
Interview with Peta Credlin, Sky News
Subjects: NATO summit, Taiwan, intelligence leak
PETA CREDLIN: All right, let's move to some international issues. Joining me now, Liberal cyber security and foreign interference shadow minister and also chair of the Select Committee on Foreign Interference through Social Media, Victorian Senator James Paterson. James, welcome to the program we saw Scott Morrison attend the G7 in 2021. That's unusual for Australia, a member of the G20, not the G7, but that was by invitation. And of course, Anthony Albanese, not long after he became PM. I went to the NATO conference last year in Madrid he's now being invited to NATO again, this year in Lithuania, of course we're the largest non-NATO contributor to the war in Ukraine. What's driving these international invitations? We're still going up a gear in terms of the rooms we're sitting in, is it about China and perhaps our understanding of the regional issues or something else?
SENATOR PATERSON: Good evening, Peta and that's really important context that you put that question in, because it is recognition that this is a pattern over a number of years now that Australia has been invited to attend some of the most significant global summits, whether it's the G7 or indeed NATO's summits. And it is recognition that we are a critical player in what is going to be the most contested geopolitical region in the years ahead, and that is the Indo-Pacific. And countries around the world are hungry for Australia's perspective, for our insights and for our advice about how we are navigating those things. Principally that is about our bilateral relationship with China, and particularly the reason why Scott Morrison was sought after is because Australia was a victim of an economic coercion campaign from China. No other country wanted to find itself in those circumstances, but they also wanted to know what they would need to do to resist it if they did find themselves in those circumstances. So I think it's great that Prime Minister Albanese has been invited to the NATO summit. It is very important that he's there because we are that very significant contributor outside of NATO to the war effort in Ukraine. And because we need to make sure that the promises that the government has made are being followed through with delivery and that delivery is being coordinated because this will be the most decisive year in the conflict in Ukraine. It may well be the most decisive few months in Ukraine, and it's critical we do what we can to support their efforts.
CREDLIN: Right. Talk to us about Taiwan. We saw the president last week welcomed in the United States, she had a formal meeting with US House Speaker Republican Kevin McCarthy in California alongside a significant group of Democrat and Republican politicians. It was a big meeting, it was recognition by the United States, of course China clearly not happy. How do you rate the significance of the trip and the level of engagement she got in this case, as I said the House Speaker? And what do you make of China's reaction, moving warships closer to Taiwan?
PATERSON: Peta, I've just returned from a trip to the United States, and my observation is that this meeting with Speaker McCarthy and his delegation of congressmen and women from the Democrats and the Republicans is further demonstration of the deeply bipartisan support within Congress, the legislative branch of the US government, for the people of Taiwan. It of course follows the delegation led by Speaker Pelosi last year to Taiwan to meet with President Tsai, and it is about signalling from Congress about its intention and its commitment to the people of Taiwan and its desire to help avoid conflict over the Taiwan Straits. Now the key to that, in the view of the Americans, is deterrence and prevention through deterrence and signalling very strongly how important Taiwan is to the United States is part of that. There's actually a US House Republican conference meeting in Taiwan right now, a delegation right now in fact Democrats on that trip too. And this is part of the stepping up of the tempo of engagements between Taiwan and the United States as part of this effort to deter China from doing anything that all of us would regret.
CREDLIN: Having come back from the US, have a listen to these comments from the French President, Emmanuel Macron, and put him through that prism because he has just wrapped up a visit to China and he was giving an interesting interview to Politico. This is a website news broadcast for people at home. And he was urging Europe to reduce its dependency on the United States, he said, and to avoid getting dragged into a confrontation between China and the US over Taiwan. Now, the end of the interview I might note there was a comment from the editors and they said that parts of this interview in which the President, I'm quoting here, 'spoke even more frankly about Taiwan and Europe's strategic autonomy were cut out by the Élysée’. Now the Élysée palace is the equivalent of the White House, it controls the media communications for the president. What do you make of Macron's comments, James? And what about that article in the sense that there seems to be more fulsome comments that were cut out?
PATERSON: I think the comments are very unfortunate, Peta. It certainly would have been a shame if in the 1940s the Allies thought that France was not a matter of interest to them and was a problem for others. And the signalling by the French government that our region the Indo-Pacific is something for others to be concerned about I think it's actually inconsistent with French foreign policy in recent years, but sends the wrong message to China. It sends a message to China that possibly it could get away with military action over the Taiwan Straits. And Australia has a very strong bipartisan tradition on Taiwan of supporting the upholding of the peaceful status quo and opposing any military resolution to that conflict. It's important that all countries who care about stability and peace in the world send that same message, because if we don't then unfortunately miscommunication could lead to miscalculation and a catastrophic conflict which would not be in anyone's interest. So, these are surprising and disappointing comments from the French President, I hope that he reconsiders and clarifies.
CREDLIN: Well, I think that Macron has form if you look at where he was with Russia going into the Ukraine conflict. But I've got to get your take on this intelligence leak only discovered of course when a whole lot of documents turned up on the Russian Telegram account. There's certainly a concern we're one of the Five Eyes, we've been flushed out and they're very detailed documents. James, what do you make of it all?
PATERSON: I should say upfront Peta, I have not been briefed about this. If I had been briefed, of course, I couldn't comment. But some intelligence experts are saying this is the most serious leak of US intelligence since the Edward Snowden affair and if that does turn out to be true, that would be very troubling. It helps no one if these documents were intended never to see foreign eyes find themselves onto the internet by whatever means that they do.
CREDLIN: It's terrible stuff, James. Senator James Paterson. Thank you for your time.
