April 5, 2025
LUKE GRANT:
As I mentioned, this policy announcement in Darwin today by Peter Dutton. Shadow Home Affairs Minister, Senator James Paterson, is on the line to talk me through what the changes are. James, nice to talk to you. Hope you are well.
JAMES PATERSON:
Good morning, Luke. Great to be with you again.
LUKE GRANT:
Thank you so much for your time. It's a bit of a compliment, I guess. Is it that the Prime Minister was so concerned about this that he thought he would ring talkback radio, if that's what you call it in Darwin?
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, that's right, Luke. And this is just more of the insider Canberra games that the Prime Minister plays. He got wind that we were on our way to Darwin to make this announcement this morning, and in a panic, he dialed in to ABC Radio Darwin to try and get ahead of it. And I tell you, Luke, in politics and particularly an election campaign, it is not normally the case that we recommend people listen to what the other side says. But in this case, I want every Australian to listen to the Prime Minister's interview on ABC Radio Darwin. Because it was a train wreck interview, it was completely incoherent. He had no answers for any of the reasonable questions he was asked about this, and it was clear that this was a panicked, rushed phone call from someone who just wasn't across the detail. And that's often the case on national security when it comes to Anthony Albanese. Not only is he weak, he doesn't understand what he's talking about, and he makes errors all the time, like confusing the Australian Defence Force with the Australian Border Force.
LUKE GRANT:
Yeah, and by falling off a stage and then saying I didn't fall. I mean, for goodness sake, even if you take one step off the back of the stage and you end up near enough to being on your back, say jeez, that's the most rest I've had, I think I heard Paul Murray say it was a great line, that's the most rest I've had in the last fortnight at least. I mean, the whole thing's just laughable. Tell me how your policy would work. Because Landbridge, who I think are operating this lease, they, from reports, have no intention of giving up the lease. How do you take back control?
JAMES PATERSON:
Look, just very quickly on that Prime Minister's comment about falling off the stage, because I think it's really, truly bizarre behaviour. If the Prime Minister is lying to you about something you can see with your own eyes, that you can contradict with your own eyes, what else is he lying to you about that you don't have good visibility of? But anyway, moving on to the more substantive issue of the day of the Landbridge port. You're absolutely right that this should never have happened. It should always have remained within Australian control. And we're going to deal with this. Firstly, we will seek to facilitate a commercial transaction; we will encourage Landbridge to do the right thing to sell it to an Australian government-approved operator. But if they refuse, the federal government has very clear powers under the Constitution to compulsorily acquire the lease so that we can transfer the ownership of that lease to someone who is going to operate it in a way that's consistent with our national interest.
LUKE GRANT:
I'm concerned about something else the Prime Minister alluded to, I think, in that Darwin phone call, where there's some indication that the Federal government had had conversations with the current leaseholder and have been talking about this for some time. In other words, trying to, I'll use that word again, trump your announcement. Non-Executive Director of Landbridge, Terry O'Connor, says that the company has not had discussions with the Federal government. That's a worry.
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, I hope this is not another lie from the Prime Minister on an important matter of national security and national interest. He said that the government has had discussions with the Landbridge Group. The Landbridge Group is now saying that has not happened. The Prime Minister really needs to clear this up today. Did he misunderstand or misspeak, or did he outright lie about these ongoing negotiations? And it's very puzzling that in an election campaign, after being in government for three years, that he's rushed this out in a way that he has. I mean, he's now in caretaker mode. He can't actually make any decisions on these really important matters of national interest. And so if he actually wanted to do something about it, as opposed to just taking a perceived political advantage, the time to do that was years ago. Not now.
LUKE GRANT:
Just on that, there's been some discussion about where we sit with the US tariffs. And I've noted Senator Don Farrell, whom we invited on the show today, he declined, as did Penny Wong decline, or though she did suggest that perhaps at a later date she'd be able to appear. Can they, under the convention, can they negotiate Australia's part in the tariff so-called war with the US? Or is that something they should do in concert with the opposition?
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, the conventions are very clear. Luke, when it comes to significant matters of national security and foreign policy, there should be bipartisanship and there should be consultation with the opposition. And that means that the government should not be making any major decisions in our national interest without consulting Peter Dutton and his team. So we expect that the government adhere to those conventions, particularly because, frankly, they haven't done very well when it comes to this issue. I mean, they've been, frankly, out there basically boasting and doing a victory lap that Australia had got the best deal available from the tariffs. But the truth is that Australia got the same arrangements under the tariffs that the Islamic Republic of Iran did.
LUKE GRANT:
What!?
JAMES PATERSON:
Yes, that's right. We've got the same tariff rate as them. And they have previously threatened to assassinate President Trump.
LUKE GRANT:
What!?
JAMES PATERSON:
They are not a country on good terms with the United States. We also got the same deal that Yemen got. Yemen is, of course, currently run by the Houthi terrorist organisation that President Trump ordered bombing of only a few weeks ago. So to say this argument that we've got some amazing deal is just not right.
LUKE GRANT:
That is astonishing because I noticed the tone, it changed from, oh, you know, this is terrible for Australia. This is a bad decision. We've been in there to do our best; we will continue to do our best. And then two hours later. Hey, how good. We've got the equal best deal in the world. I'm thinking we got the deal, maybe the UK got. Are you telling me today that Australia got the same US tariff deal as did Iran and Yemen?
JAMES PATERSON:
Correct. We got exactly the same tariff deal as them.
LUKE GRANT:
A joke!
JAMES PATERSON:
So their diplomacy has been equally effective to ours in Washington, D.C. in securing that status. I'm not sure quite how they did it. Maybe they're doing victory laps as well. But I’ve got to tell you, Luke, Australian exporters who do business in the United States don't think this is a great victory. They think this is a terrible blow to their businesses. And they're disappointed that the Prime Minister and his government have put such a low energy effort into this task. Why didn't the Prime Minister travel to the United States like so many other world leaders did to make our case? Why hasn't the Trade Minister been over there to have talks with his counterparts? Why can't the Prime Minister even get a call with the President over the last several weeks? The President's been leaving him on blank. That is not a good state of the relationship, of such a critical relationship. And frankly, we need strong leadership that will stand up for Australia, not weakness that allows us to be walked all over.
LUKE GRANT:
When the territory government wanted or allowed this lease to take place. Most reports suggest it was waved through by the Federal government, which was a Coalition government. Now, are you prepared to accept that the Federal Coalition government at the time owns some of this Port of Darwin issue? Was that a mistake?
JAMES PATERSON:
I'm glad you asked this, Luke. I've said many, many times that this is a mistake, that it shouldn't have happened. But the truth is, it was a decision of the Northern Territory government. It didn't go to the Foreign Investment Review Board because it was a territory government engaging in a lease to a foreign entity that wasn't captured by the law at the time. And that was a deficiency in the law which the Morrison government fixed. We changed the legislation so that in future, any new proposals like that would have to get the approval of the Foreign Investment Review Board. But absolutely, it should never have happened. And because the strategic environment has deteriorated even more in the last ten years, since 2015, when that happened, I think the case for returning control of the port to an Australian government-approved operator is even stronger than it was then. And that's why Peter Dutton is willing to make this tough decision in the national interest. He is a strong leader. He will stand up for Australia. He will do whatever it takes to secure our national security, but also our economic security.
LUKE GRANT:
Are you worried about foreign interference? We've had the Chinese media this week say, our preferred candidate is the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese. Now you're first off the blocks with taking back the port of Darwin over security concerns. Are you concerned about the influence, online influence, of some of these international players?
JAMES PATERSON:
Unfortunately, foreign interference in elections is a phenomenon that we have to deal with in the modern communications and social media environment, and I am concerned about the potential impact that could have on the election. It's critical that the Foreign Interference Task Force and the Electoral Integrity Assurance Task Force, which is led by the Australian Electoral Commission, gets on top of this as soon as possible and make sure that, you know, any attempts by foreign governments to sway Australians in the lead up to the election is not allowed to influence the outcome of our election. Because we want Australians deciding this election and deciding the future of our country, not foreign governments. And I think the Prime Minister should reflect on why it is that the propaganda mouthpiece of a foreign authoritarian government is giving him such glowing reviews. I wouldn't be personally comfortable to receive that kind of fawning coverage.
LUKE GRANT:
Yeah. Look after yourself, James. Senator Paterson, I appreciate your time very much indeed.
JAMES PATERSON:
Thanks, Luke.
ENDS