April 18, 2023
Tuesday 18 April 2023
Interview with Neil Mitchell, 3AW
Subjects: Sighting of alleged Chinese police car, appointment as the Shadow Minister for Home Affairs
NEIL MITCHELL: On the line now is Senator James Paterson, who has just been appointed early this morning, Shadow Home Affairs spokesman. Congratulations, Senator.
JAMES PATERSON: Thanks, Neil, and great to be with you and your listeners.
MITCHELL: Does this issue come under Home Affairs, I suppose, doesn't it? Because we arranged the interview beforehand.
PATERSON: It certainly does. I mean, it could be a very serious issue of foreign interference in our democracy and it's fair to say, Neil, it's utterly unacceptable if someone is actually representing or purporting to represent Chinese police forces in Australia. I think it's much more likely that this is just an over enthusiastic supporter of the Chinese Communist Party rather than the Chinese police actually operating here. But either way, it would intimidate and strike fear in the hearts of Chinese Australians and it's not acceptable.
MITCHELL: Is it illegal?
PATERSON: It should be if it's not. I mean, it's already illegal to pose as a Victoria police officer or a federal police officer. It should be also illegal to purport represent a foreign police service in Australia. I'll have to have a look at that and check whether that's already the case.
MITCHELL: I think it's a fair point to say if this really, if we have got Chinese operatives working in Australia, they're not going to get around cars marked that way. So, it's somebody trying to send a message somehow?
PATERSON: I think that's most likely, and I fear that the intention is to intimidate the Chinese diaspora in Australia. The Chinese government is the number one source of attempted foreign interference in Australia and that takes many forms. But one of the principal targets is the Chinese Australian community, because the Chinese Communist Party has the view that if you are Chinese ethnically, no matter where you live in the world, no matter what your citizenship is, you owe obligations to Beijing and that includes supporting their political objectives.
MITCHELL: What about these reports? I hadn't seen them, but today I have seen a report from December last year that the suspicion of two Chinese police stations operating in Australia?
PATERSON: That's right. There were reports about a possible Chinese police liaison service operating in Sydney without the consent of the Australian government. I have raised the issue directly with the Australian Federal Police and with ASIO, with the Director-General through the Senate Estimates process. And both of them assured me that if it ever was operating, it's certainly not operational anymore. But as you know, Neil, there's been reports overnight that a number of people have been arrested in the United States for operating a secret Chinese police station in New York City. So, we need to be eternally vigilant about these risks.
MITCHELL: What do these undercover Chinese police stations do?
PATERSON: To mostly try to intimidate and coerce Chinese diaspora communities overseas, but in some instances attempting to try and force people who are from China to return to China to face charges in the Chinese justice system, effectively circumventing the normal extradition process. Australia does not have an extradition treaty with China. We would never extradite someone to their justice system because it is not a free and fair justice system. It has a 99.9 per cent conviction rate. But if they try to force people back home, the only way they can do it is through unlawful means like this.
MITCHELL: What do you do about it now? The Premier, by the way, said he knew nothing about this, should he?
PATERSON:Well,I hope Victoria Police is investigating. We do have the number plates of the car that's been photographed. It should be easy for them to look up who the owner of the car is and to ask them some questions about why they put these stickers on their car and what their intentions are. So, I hope the police are investigating and I hope they take appropriate action and report to the Premier to inform him about it.
MITCHELL: Yeah. And what will you do from here?
PATERSON: Well, I'm going to investigate this question of whether or not it is already illegal to impersonate a foreign police service. If it's not, then I will raise it with the government. The federal government under the previous Liberal and National government passed legislation, making it an offence to impersonate a Commonwealth official. If that needs to be amended or extended to cover foreign government officials, then I think we should do that because I don't want anyone being intimidated by people engaging in these appalling tactics.
MITCHELL: What's your second job as Shadow Home Affairs spokesman?
PATERSON: Well, there's a lot of responsibilities relating to cyber security, which is unfortunately a very pressing concern for all Australians, as we've seen with the Optus and Medibank and Latitude Financial attacks. They are very real threats to people's privacy and their financial security and safety. So, I will be holding the government to account for the promises they've made to make Australia the safest cyber security country in the world by 2030. That's a great commitment, but I want to see it followed through to make it happen.
MITCHELL: Thank you so much. And again, congratulations. Thanks for talking to us.
PATERSON: Thanks Neil.
