July 17, 2024
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: Now, speaking of that security issue, obviously in the wake of the attempted assassination of Donald Trump and also the, the protest at Parliament House a couple of weeks ago, former Home Affairs Secretary Mike Pezzullo has called for a review into protective security arrangements amid growing concerns about political violence and threats to MPs in Australia. That's as the Albanese government warned democracy was under attack and we've seen attacks on MPs, offices, etc. Those calls have been echoed by the Shadow Home Affairs minister, Senator James Paterson, who joins us. James, good morning.
JAMES PATERSON: Good to be with you.
CENATIEMPO: My understanding is, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the only politician who actually has a permanent security detail is the Prime minister. So I guess everybody else is potentially vulnerable.
PATERSON: That's not quite right, Stephen. There are other politicians who have permanent security details, and I won't name them in this forum because obviously it's not a good idea to advertise that, but it's a risk based approach. So politicians who are subject to security threats that are considered sufficiently serious can have and there are those that do have a permanent security detail, both when we were previously in government and now that we are in opposition. But it is a small number who have that protection. The vast majority of MPs don't have permanent protection, and that is a result of limited resources that the AFP has to assign them based on risk.
CENATIEMPO: I would imagine, though, that that list would probably grow in the wake of recent protests and recent attacks on MP's offices?
PATERSON: Certainly, the trend Stephen over recent years has been for that list to grow and for ministers who didn't traditionally need that protection to have that protection. And that's because we've seen a very significant increase in the number of threats made against members of Parliament, their staff, their offices, their family, other high office holders, including the Governor-General and other high profile people, including Judges. And that's partly due to that social media environment, which is very volatile. But I think it's also a reflection of the political environment, which is becoming very fraught in some instances, particularly around issues like the 7th October attacks on Israel by Hamas. We've unfortunately, we've seen politicians, including my colleague Josh Burns from the Labor Party here in Victoria, have their offices literally firebombed and, you know, that is a very bad sign of the direction we're heading in.
CENATIEMPO: Well, even the Prime Minister's own electorate office in Grayndler has effectively become a no go zone because of protesters permanently positioned at the front. But I guess the question is, what do we do about this and what do we need to change?
PATERSON: There's a couple of things. Number one, and most importantly, we've got to make sure that the federal police have the resources that they need to provide the protection that is required. We never want someone going without protection because of limited resources. And so that's got to be examined carefully. Secondly, I think we've got to look at legislative power. I think it should be considered a crime to deny the public access to an electorate office. It's a public place. It's a federal government service. And if you're camping out in such a way that threatens access to those services for months on end, I think we've got to look at whether the police have powers, sufficient powers to move you on and prevent you from obstructing it. And then finally, it's about political leadership in this country. Since the 7th of October, the Greens and others have deliberately ramped up tensions over this issue. There has been protests at fundraisers, political party conferences, electorate offices, essentially harassing people for participating in the political process. That is not something I ever thought we would see in Australia and it shouldn't be welcome. And all political leaders should call it out.
CENATIEMPO: James, the attempted assassination of President Trump, seems to have woken up a lot of politicians in the US that they need to tone down their rhetoric a bit. Do you think we're going to learn that same lesson? Because, I mean, whilst Adam Bandt is out there carrying on with his normal rhetoric, will the rest of us maybe sort of realise that we're part of the problem?
PATERSON: Look, I hope we learn that lesson and I hope we learn it before something terrible happens in our own country and not afterwards. Because Australia, although we have very different gun laws and a different gun culture, is not immune from the kind of violence we've seen in the United States and all we have to do is look at the United Kingdom, which has similar gun laws and culture to Australia, where two MPs have been murdered in the last decade. And so we are not immune. It could happen here, and I think all political leaders should be responsible and measured and calm on these issues.
CENATIEMPO: It's quite frightening to think and Mike Pezzullo made this point, that there hasn't actually been a review of security in Australia since 1979, after the Hilton bombing the previous year.
PATERSON: Look, I think there have been some smaller reviews, but not the kind of comprehensive review that Michael Pezzullo is calling for. And I think it's a very timely call. I think we should be examining all the settings, the resources, the legislation, everything around it to make sure that people are protected. Because there have been, you know, very serious threats as the AFP continues to report. We have to take those threats seriously before we regret it.
CENATIEMPO: You talked about the need for resourcing of the federal police, and we talk about it here in the ACT all the time, particularly with regards to the ACT policing arm. But there's currently an industrial dispute going on and the negotiation between the federal government and the federal police for a better pay deal. The government seems to be digging its heels in on that. What's the opposition's position?
PATERSON: Well, the AFP and their members do an extraordinary job for our country on a whole range of things, not just protecting public office holders, but obviously, you know, law and order in the ACT and around the country on things like serious organised crime, foreign interference, espionage, drug trafficking, you know, really serious things. They deserve a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. And while I'm not going to weigh in on the individual details of the EBA, I really urge the Albanese government to resolve this in an amicable way that results in AFP officers being paid well for the work they do.
CENATIEMPO: James, good to talk to you this morning. Thanks for joining us.
PATERSON: Thanks, Stephen
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