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January 19, 2024
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO: To discuss that and a range of other issues, we're joined by the Shadow Home Affairs Minister, Senator James Paterson. James, good morning.
JAMES PATERSON: Good morning. Stephen.
CENATIEMPO: Penny Wong has been criticised, well she's criticised the building of Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories, which look, I know a lot of people probably hold that same view, but it's interesting that when she says we believe the settlements are contrary to International law, we have also consistently said that they are an impediment to peace. I would have thought terrorist attacks were an impediment to peace, too.
PATERSON: Yeah, if we are thinking about the scale of the problems and the scale of the challenges, probably the massacre of the largest number of Jews in a pogrom since the end of the Holocaust on the 7th of October is a larger obstacle to peace than settlements. Settlements are an issue, but one which previous peace negotiations have found ways of dealing with. There would be land swaps in between any future Palestinian state and a state of Israel that can resolve those issues. A much bigger problem is that Israel currently doesn't have a partner fir peace. It has no one it can negotiate with because Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. They've said they'll seek to repeat 7th October again and again and again. How on earth can you have a peace negotiation with them?
CENATIEMPO: What's even more problematic, though, is that we've promised an aid package to Gaza $22 million, I believe it is. Which, you know, on the face of it sounds fine because we know that civilians have been caught up in the response from Israel. But how do we guarantee that these aid packages actually get to the people who need them, given that Hamas, a known terrorist organisation, is actually running Gaza?
PATERSON: Well, the $22 million is just the third of three aid packages announced by the government in the last three months that now totals $46 million. And among the organisations the government intends to hand over millions of Australian taxpayer dollars to is UNRWA, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, which operates in Gaza. The problem with that is that there's very well documented evidence in the past of Hamas successfully siphoning money away from UNRWA. Of schools run by UNRWA engaging in terrorism glorification and the promotion of anti-Semitism. Of UNRWA teachers being involved and implicated in the holding of Israeli hostages from the 7th of October. Of a whole range of improprieties that mean we can have no confidence at all that Australian taxpayers money is going to be well spent. And Penny Wong's only plan to prevent this from happening is to ask the Palestinian Authority, which operates in the West Bank, to make sure that money is not misspent by Hamas in Gaza, where they haven't had a presence on the ground for almost 20 years. It's absolutely absurd.
CENATIEMPO: Is there any way to guarantee? Because, I mean, nobody would begrudge aid going to the right people? Is there any way to ensure that, innocent civilians in Gaza receive the aid that they need? I know that there are some saying that, even the Palestinian civilians are somewhat complicit in Hamas being able to maintain control in Gaza, but surely not everybody's complicit.
PATERSON: There's a genuine humanitarian need in Gaza. There's no one who disputes that. And Australia does have a role that we can play, but there are safer ways of doing it than giving money to UNWRA. For example, we could be donating food and water and medical supplies to organisations like the Red Cross who are currently shipping that across the border in Rafah from Egypt, right now. That's one way that you can deal with the immediate humanitarian aid while significantly reducing the risk of those funds being misappropriated by Hamas. I mean, let's remember, Hamas has successfully built one of the most advanced tunnel networks in the world underneath Gaza. They didn't do that, from money that was earned in Gaza. They did that from international aid and support. So they've got a great track record of misusing this money, and we shouldn't be party to those continued attacks on Israel.
CENATIEMPO: Am I right in suggesting that the Australian government still hasn't declared what happened on the 7th of October, a terrorist attack?
PATERSON: You are. And this is an utterly shocking thing. So the Australian government has a scheme by which we compensate the families of victims of terrorism. It's been in place for more than a decade. Dozens of terrorist incidents have been declared, including ones involving far smaller numbers of people than this one. But today, three months on, they still have not declared what happened on the 7th of October by Hamas as a terrorist attack, and therefore families of victims of terrorism in Australia still can't access compensation. What we're talking about here is pretty small grants of up to $75,000. We're not talking about $46 million, which they've rushed out the door into Gaza despite the risk it could fund terrorism. But pretty small grants for people here living in Australia have lost, in some cases, three generations of their family on the 7th of October. And I just cannot understand the lack of urgency on the part of the Albanese government. It makes no sense at all.
CENATIEMPO: But this seems to be a little bit of a pattern too, because we've also got the issue with the Houthi rebels in the Red sea. The US has declared the hoodie a terrorist organisation, albeit very late in the piece. We haven't followed suit on that either yet. We seem to be very reluctant to declare people terrorists in this country. I remember back in the day with Hizb ut-Tahrir we wouldn't. Prescribed them as an organisation either.
PATERSON: You're right. And in the case of the Houthis, I wrote to the government about this before the United States made their announcement, before they made their decision, well over a week ago, suggesting that the government do so. There can be no debate about what the Houthis are doing and have done. They've conducted terrorism in Yemen. They've conducted terrorism against other countries in the region. And they're conducting terrorism right now against international shipping indiscriminately in the Red Sea in a way which has a direct effect on Australians. But because we've refused to contribute a naval vessel to Operation Prosperity Guardian, we are not even willing to declare them as a terrorist organisation, one of the few remaining tools available, that we can actually help our AUKUS partners who are leading this fight.
CENATIEMPO: Inaction seems to be a hallmark of this government. James, I appreciate your time this morning.
PATERSON: Thanks, Stephen.
ENDS
