August 8, 2024
MICHAEL MCLAREN: Now, you would be forgiven for thinking that we are a little closer to the Middle East based on the sorts of protests and political messages that you've certainly seen on the streets at the moment. With that said, you can also be forgiven for thinking we're a little closer to that part of the world geographically, based off some of the pre-selection battles that seem to be taking place. One concerns an ALP figure by the name of Shaoquett Moselmane, now no stranger to New South Wales politics. But it's been made pretty clear that he's keen to have a stab as the Labor candidate in Barton. Of course that seat will be vacated at the next federal election because Linda Burney, the sitting MP is retiring. Clearly, there are some people in the Labor Party and elsewhere that don't want Shaoquett Moselmane to win pre-selection. I'd be astonished if he did, because they will lose the seat. But it's come out in the last 24 hours that he's recently dined with the Iranian envoy, the same bloke slammed by even the Albanese government for his repugnant call for Israel's destruction. Not a good look on your CV as a potential local member of Parliament, I wouldn't have thought. But anyway, that's one issue, the broader story, particularly in that part of the world and this affects us, is what is Iran going to do in retaliation to what Israel did? Taking out the political leader of Hamas in Tehran and a high ranking Hezbollah figure in Beirut, Iran will respond. They said they will. I'm surprised they haven't yet. I don't know what that means, but they haven't yet. I don't think we're far away, and I am very worried about what that is going to look like. Senator James Paterson, as you know, is across the board, he is really across his brief, very, very good politician, Shadow Home Affairs Minister, he's on the line. Good to speak again, James. Thank you for your time.
JAMES PATERSON: Good to be with you, Michael.
MCLAREN: Just quickly, first with this Shaoquett Moselmane. I mean, my goodness, if Labor put him up well, there might as well write that seat of Barton off. What's going on here?
PATERSON: Well frankly, not only should he not be chosen as the Labor candidate for Barton, I don't think he should even be allowed to nominate. I mean, this is someone who has shown very poor judgement of hanging out with the Ambassador for the Iranian regime, a country which has been disclosed as being responsible for running foreign interference operations in our country, targeting Australians. A country which has taken Australians as political hostages. A country which is the number one state sponsor of terror in the Middle East and a country, or regime, that oppresses its people appallingly, particularly gay people and women. No Australian should be hanging out with representatives of this regime. They are not our friends. And yet this aspiring Labor candidate has. What we need from the Prime Minister for once is some leadership and some strength. Instead of weakness, he should use the powers of the New South Wales Labor party to prevent Shaoquett Moselmane from even nominating for pre-selection in Barton.
MCLAREN: How does the Labor pre-selection work? Is it rank and file, or will this be decreed from Sussex Street somewhere?
PATERSON: Well, the Labor party, like many political parties, has a constitution which sets out their official processes for choosing their candidates, but also has informal processes behind the scenes that arrange these things from time to time. And I think the Prime Minister has got a lot of options available for him here. He's the Prime Minister. He's the head of the Labor Party, he is a New South Wales MP, Barton in fact, is the neighbouring seat to his own seat. I think he even said recently he's been redistributed so that his home is in the seat of Barton and Linda Burney used to be his local member. So he's got immense power and authority to stop this from happening. And all political parties have measures to prevent disreputable candidates from nominating for preselection so they don't carry their party into disrepute and they should use those powers here.
MCLAREN: I agree with you. This is a microcosm of a macro issue, though. Let's look at what's happening in the Middle East, Israel, completely within their right, I would have hoped Australia did the same thing if we were under the same circumstance. Took out the political leader of Hamas. They did it in Tehran. They took out a leading figure of Hezbollah in Beirut. Iran and their proxies in those areas have said, we will respond. Of course they will, I'm surprised they haven't done it yet. Do you have a sense of why that might be? Why we haven't yet seen the Iranian response.
PATERSON: The last time Iran directly attacked Israel was only a few months ago, in response to other incidents like this. And what they did was an extraordinary thing and not something that we should downplay, but what they did was they carefully telegraphed it in advance so that Israel and its allies were prepared, because I suspect, although the regime wanted to be seen to be striking back against Israel, it doesn't actually want war with Israel. That would be terrible for Iran and the region. And so it wanted a response that looked powerful but didn't do too much actual damage. And in the end, almost all of those drones and missiles were shot out of the sky by Israel and its allies. We can't be assured that exactly the same thing will happen this time again, because Hezbollah is also proposing to respond and attack Israel, and they are a very formidable terrorist organisation just on Israel's northern border. I mean, we know they've killed children playing on a soccer field in the Golan Heights only a few weeks ago. So this is a dangerous moment and Iran and its proxies should consider very carefully what the consequences would be if they escalated and made this into a full scale war.
MCLAREN: I agree. Back to the domestic then with that established. You've got the Greens who are running around trying to canvass votes, particularly in Labor areas with migrant populations, saying, look, Labor are not doing enough to support the Palestinian cause, however you interpret that. Vote for us and we will. They're out there now wanting, sanctions on the Israeli Prime Minister, sanctions on Israeli figures. They have almost nothing ever to say about Hamas, and yet they seem to be in this deluded well, I don't know, I think they're deluded, James. Talking about two state solutions and peace and ceasefires. Hamas have, just, as you know, put in Sinwar the mastermind, quote unquote, behind October 7th as the replacement for the man that the Israelis took out. So he's now the boss. He's now the boss. How on earth, in a rational world, could the Israeli administration, Netanyahu or not, do a deal, come up with a two state solution, call peace, with an organisation that has just promoted the so-called brains behind October 7th?
PATERSON: Well we shouldn't have needed any more data points. But for anyone who does, this is a pretty powerful one. There's now no allusions what Hamas is. There shouldn't have been since the 7th October. There should have been before the 7th of October. But as you say, when they promote to be their political leader, their supposed civilian leader of their organisation, a terrorist who planned the worst atrocities against Jews since the end of the Holocaust in a single day. I mean, I think we can see what they are. I mean, even the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister say that Hamas should have no role in the future governance of Gaza. And at the same time, they're calling on Israel to have an immediate cease fire that stops the military operations against Hamas. How do they think Hamas is going to be removed from power in Gaza, if not by the IDF? And if these operations stop now, with Hamas still intact in Gaza, don't they realise that Hamas would just take over Gaza again, as it has in the past and we will be back, unfortunately, in this terrible situation at some point in the future?
MCLAREN: I mean, this is the reality. So why don't they see it? You're in politics, what political game are the Greens playing here? I think it's a very dangerous domestic political game.
PATERSON: The one area where I have some sympathy for the Prime Minister is when he has called out the Greens for their reprehensible politicisation of this issue. There's no question they are weaponising these for potential political gain. They want to win seats off the Labor Party, particularly in inner cities. But the challenge for the Prime Minister is, to do more than just call them out on it, actually do something about it. And the thing he could do that would really hurt the Greens is to put the them last. Don't preference them. Don't do deals to them. Don't give them the seats that they can win only with Labor preferences. That will send a strong message, and that will require some strength and leadership for the Prime Minister, and I hope he can show. I have to say, I have my doubts.
MCLAREN: He is not going to do it. He's not going to do it because he's got a small majority. He relies on their preferences more than they rely on his.
PATERSON: Well, if that's the case, and I think you are right, then let's stop the pantomime. Let's stop pretending. Let's stop the performative behaviour here. And let's be honest, we have a Labor-Greens alliance. The Prime Minister knows he will rely on them to be re-elected. He knows he might have to rely on them in a hung parliament. He might need to rely on them if he's in a minority government. But if you think the last two years have been bad, if you think Labor is being weak right now, imagine how weak they would be on the national security, let alone the economy, if they were dependent on the Greens in the next Parliament.
MCLAREN: Good to talk. Thank you, James, and we'll speak again soon, I hope.
PATERSON: Thanks Michael.
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