February 3, 2025
BEN FORDHAM: We're warned today that Australian neo-Nazis are thriving on social media. And Elon Musk is partly to blame. White supremacists and leaders of Australia's National Socialist Network were previously banned on Twitter, but now it's been rebadged as X, and Elon Musk has welcomed people who had previously been banned back. Prominent neo-Nazis like Thomas Sewell have gained followers, and they've been notching up thousands and thousands of views. And the Shadow Home Affairs Minister James Paterson, has acknowledged this is a concerning trend. He joins us on the line right now. James, good morning to you.
JAMES PATERSON: Good morning, Ben.
FORDHAM: Was it a mistake of Elon Musk to welcome these people back?
PATERSON: I understand why Elon Musk puts freedom of speech at the heart of his social media platform. I'm a strong believer in freedom of speech as well, it is core of our societies, whether it's the United States or Australia. But most free speech advocates, myself included, draw the line at advocacy of violence and incitement to violence. And I think that's happening on the X platform. And I think white supremacists and the neo-Nazis are engaging in it. And there appear to be no consequences for them.
FORDHAM: It feels like it's another planet when you see some of those images, we saw some on Australia Day in Adelaide of neo-Nazis marching through the streets. It just feels like it's something that we wouldn't expect to see here. But I suppose if people are being radicalised online if they're seeing others like Thomas Sewell with a big platform online, it might encourage other knuckleheads to join the movement.
PATERSON: Unfortunately, that's exactly what's happening. Platforms like X are providing a fertile recruiting ground for neo-Nazis and white supremacists, and they are emboldened in recent months, particularly in response to the war in Gaza, which they feel is another recruiting tool for them. I think there's a responsibility of platforms like X to not provide their neo-Nazis with a recruiting platform. In addition to that, it is the responsibility of the Australian government to clarify our anti-incitement to violence laws, which are frankly inadequate. Right now, Commonwealth incitement laws have a good faith defence. That means that if you engage in incitement of violence against someone on the basis of their race or religion, you can defend yourself by saying you're inciting violence in good faith. Well, I don't think it's ever good faith to incite violence on the basis of someone's race or religion. And those laws are long past overdue being reformed.
FORDHAM: We're talking to James Paterson, the Shadow Minister for Home Affairs. I want to ask you about the caravan bomb that was discovered in Sydney. It's been revealed that the Prime Minister didn't know about it, even though the Premier did. What do you make about the fact that Prime Minister Anthony Albanese was kept in the dark?
PATERSON: It's extremely difficult to understand then why the Prime Minister was not told about a very serious attempted terrorist event. Had this event proceeded, it could have been the worst mass casualty event in Australia's history and it was targeting the Jewish community in the middle of a spate of antisemitic terror attacks. So he should have been told and he should have made his expectations clear to the Federal Police that he be told about things like this. What is even more inexplicable is Anthony Albanese's inability to be up front about this. He's been asked repeatedly about it and he says he won't interfere in an operation. Well, there's no way it would interfere with an operation to disclose when he was told or whether he was told.
FORDHAM: What's the problem with him not being told when the protocol says that you don't necessarily have to tell the Prime Minister unless there's an imminent threat?
PATERSON: Well, at the very least, the Attorney-General, who's the Minister responsible for the AFP, should have been called and told. He could have made the judgement whether he passed it on to the Prime Minister. The reason why it's a problem is you might want to call a National Security Committee of Cabinet in response to news like this. You might want to make policy changes to protect the Australian community. You might reach out to the affected target community, in this case the Jewish community, to reassure them that you're doing everything to protect them. But if you don't know, you can't do any of those things. And this is a major breakdown in our national security policy architecture.
FORDHAM: Okay. We'll see if he answers further questions on it this week because, as you say, he's been keeping those details limited. We appreciate your time.
PATERSON: Thanks, Ben.
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