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November 8, 2024
TOM ELLIOTT: Our next guest is the shadow Minister for Home Affairs, he's also a federal Australian Senator. James Paterson, good morning.
JAMES PATERSON: Good to be with you, Tom.
ELLIOTT: So, I saw a video of you talking to, I think one of the senior bureaucrats from the Department of Home Affairs. So first, have they cancelled, or got rid of, or minimised the use of the Australian flag?
PATERSON: The short answer Tom is yes. In Senate Estimates on Monday, I asked the Secretary of the Department of Home Affairs, Stephanie Foster, why the Australian, but also Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags had suddenly disappeared from her photo on the Home Affairs website and the photo of other senior officials and bureaucrats in the portfolio, including the Australian Border Force Commissioner. And she said the reason was to make it less formal so that the senior executive of Home Affairs seemed more approachable. I mean frankly, I don't buy that explanation and it's pretty troubling for a couple of reasons. One, the Department of Home Affairs is the department of the Commonwealth that has the most to do with promoting the Australian flag because they're responsible for citizenship and the questions about the Australian flag on the citizenship test. And it's their job to promote the symbols of Australian citizenship. But also, you really got to ask, what is the priorities of the Department of Home Affairs right now? Is it really airbrushing the Australian flag out of photos?
ELLIOTT: Well, and also if you consider Border Force, what border are we protecting? And let's just think... think... Ah yes, Australia! Home affairs, what is the home, whose affairs we are dealing with here? Ah again, it's Australia.
PATERSON: Indeed Tom, and if Border Force officials or Home Affairs officials are not comfortable working for the Australian government, I'm sure there are other governments in the world they could work for and other flags they could associate with. But let's remember that this change was made at a time when we had violent, non-citizen criminal detainees released into the community re-offending against Australians. We had the department failing to advise the Minister about the need to cancel visas of other people who had committed crimes in our country who should be deported. We have a social cohesion crisis. We have an anti-Semitism crisis. We have an extremism crisis. All of these things I would have thought would have been higher priorities on the job list of the Secretary of the Department of Home Affairs.
ELLIOTT: Do you believe, what's her name Stephanie? Is that right?
PATERSON: That's right. Stephanie Foster.
ELLIOTT: Stephanie Foster, do you believe her when she says she just wants to make the photos in the nature of the department less formal, or do you think there is almost like, I don't know, a bureaucratic embarrassment towards our flag?
PATERSON: I think there is an ideology in the very senior public service in Canberra that is a little bit uncomfortable with public displays of patriotism, that are not really proud to promote and stand up for what's great about our country, what's great about our history, what's great about our national symbols and don't want to be associated with them so openly and directly. And I think that's a real culture problem and one that I assure you a Peter Dutton government would fix.
ELLIOTT: But I find that extraordinary because I mean, if you work in Border Force, presumably you're someone who says, I want to help protect the borders of Australia, I want to stop drugs being smuggled in and people being smuggled in and illegal cigarettes being smuggled in and all the other things that shouldn't cross our borders. But if you work in Home Affairs, similar thing. You're dealing with, you know, the integrity of the nation we call Australia. Surely these bureaucrats, well, have they forgotten the people who pay them are the people of Australia?
PATERSON: Well, that's exactly right, Tom. And I should say in my dealings with most of the national security officials I deal with, they are intensely patriotic Australians, and they do want to protect our country and that's why they go and work in these jobs. But at the senior levels, the people who are appointed by Anthony Albanese and his government, I think we do have a problem. And there is a failure of political leadership here. I mean Tony Burke as Home Affairs Minister, as soon as he heard this, should have rung his secretary and said, what on earth are you doing? Put the flags back in the photos.
ELLIOTT: Is it tied up, you know, every year we have the debates, you know, December into January about Australia Day January the 26th, is it the right date and all that sort of thing. Do you think this is another version of that where we say, righto, we're not comfortable with Australia Day and now we're not comfortable with the Australian flag?
PATERSON: Yes. I think it's very closely associated, and we should push back on that very strongly because the 26th of January, Australia Day is something worthy of celebrating. Our flag is something worthy of celebrating. Our country and our history is something worthy of celebrating. That's not to say that we're a perfect country, but we're a pretty damn good country. And if you don't think so, well, then there's plenty of other places in the world to live. And there's plenty other governments in the world you can work for. We want people working for the Australian government who love this country and love it more than most.
ELLIOTT: Plenty of other jobs you could have where you're not required to respect the Australian flag. All right. Thank you, Senator.
ENDS
