November 27, 2024
GARY ADSHEAD: So the federal government have been obviously dealing with every spotfire as they've come out, but there is a plan and it's been around for a little while now, but it looks like it's going through the Parliament and that is that those stateless detainees that of course, can't just be sent back to the country where they came from because they are stateless and would not be recognised, might be sent to other countries if we pay that other country enough money to take them, I don't know, what do you think of it? James Paterson is the Opposition Home Affairs Spokesperson. He joins me now. Good day, James.
JAMES PATERSON: Good to be with you Gary.
ADSHEAD: Alright, now, obviously Labor, as I said, you know, had to be seen to be doing something about this. You agree with this plan?
PATERSON: Well, Labor has made a total mess of our immigration and border protection and national security since they came to office and we are helping them clean up their own mess. And in particular their unconstitutional laws which they rushed through the Parliament last year, which was supposed to protect the community by requiring these detainees to wear ankle bracelets and be subject to curfews. But the High Court has found those laws to be invalid. And one of the bills that we've agreed to pass this week will deal with that and allow those ankle bracelets and curfews to be reimposed. But other bills in the package that we've negotiated with the government deal with some long standing problems with the integrity of our migration system. And they reflect long standing priorities of the Coalition to try and fix. Some of them are things that we tried to do when we were in government and Labor blocked us from doing but they have now agreed to do.
ADSHEAD: All right. Now, just tell us how you believe this would work, that a stateless individual would be sent to a third country that's willing to take them, I take it, and I'm not wrong in saying there would be a payment involved in that?
PATERSON: So the public policy problem that's been caused by the High Court's ruling is that these are violent non-citizens whose visas have been cancelled and would not otherwise be allowed to stay in Australia, except they can't be deported back to their own country because they're either stateless or a refugee. And no other country has so far been willing to take them because of the nature of their crimes. And so what the government is proposing, which we have agreed to, is that they're able to enter into an arrangement with third countries that compensates them for taking these people.
ADSHEAD: Compensates them how?
PATERSON: A financial arrangement can be entered into by the Australian government with another government to allow them to take these people, to grant them a visa. And that's important for two reasons. One is it does allow these people to be deported from our country who pose a risk to our community. But secondly, it also allows them to be re detained because the test that the High Court set out is that if there's no prospect of them being removed, they can't be detained. But if there is another country that's willing to take them, they can be detained.
ADSHEAD: Right? They can be detained up until such time that they leave, you mean?
PATERSON: Correct.
ADSHEAD: Right, okay. And is there any sort of guidelines around which countries we could negotiate with to take these people?
PATERSON: So we asked the department about this in a Senate hearing on Thursday last week, and they said that they would negotiate consistent with Australia's international obligations, including the things we've signed up to, like the Refugee Convention, which states, for example, you can't refoul someone. That is, you can't send someone back to the country where they fear persecution and they will only negotiate with countries who will uphold those agreements.
ADSHEAD: Is there any sort of idea what it might cost? I mean, I'm trying to get a handle on what you know, we'll give you 200,000 for this one. I mean, how does it work?
PATERSON: No, the government has not been transparent about which countries they're negotiating with. They have not been transparent about how much this will cost, how advanced those negotiations are, and whether they'll be able to put those in place as soon as the legislation passes. And I think it is notable that since this legislation was introduced, the Minister for Home Affairs and Immigration, Tony Burke, has not done one press conference. He has not done one interview, he has not explained this. And so I'm in the invidious position as the Shadow Minister for Home Affairs, explaining the government's legislation publicly because he's in hiding.
ADSHEAD: Right. Okay. Now then, according to the Asylum Seeker Resource Centre, this is inhumane. Now this is the Chief Executive, Kon Karapanagiotidis talking about it earlier. Have a listen.
[CLIP START]
KON KARAPANAGIOTIDIS: Not since Keating brought in mandatory detention 32 years ago have we seen such an attack on migrant and refugee communities. This law will allow up to 80,000 people lawfully in the community to be deported, many of them back to danger.
[CLIP END]
ADSHEAD: All right. There you go. What do you say to that?
PATERSON: Well, I think that's alarmist. And it also doesn't grapple with the problem that the government faces, that our country faces, which is we have violent non-citizens in the community. There's about 200 of these people have been released since the High Court. 65 of them have been charged with new offences, criminal offences at the State and Territory level. It shows this is a recidivist cohort and refugee groups like the one you just referred to also oppose laws that we've negotiated with the government to deny people the ability to bring in mobile phones into immigration detention. Now that is a critical reform because immigration detention centres have become lawless places. There are detainees who are running drug trafficking rings from immigration detention. And they're putting our border force officials in personal physical danger as a result of this lawlessness. Now, this is something we've tried to legislate twice. When we were in government. Labor blocked it twice, but they have now finally agreed that this has become completely out of control and needs to be legislated.
ADSHEAD: Now James, you'd accept then that the human rights lawyers and the asylum seeker lawyers that have gone in to fight for these stateless people, you would accept that they have had a pretty good strike rate in the High Court when it gets there. Are you expecting that this too would be challenged?
PATERSON: They certainly have had a good strike rate, and we are concerned about the possibility of further constitutional challenges. And we have again assort the assurances of the government that this legislation is constitutionally sound and legally robust, and they have promised us that it is. But they did also promise us that last time they rushed legislation like this through. So we will just have to wait and see what verdict the High Court arrives at when it considers matters like this.
ADSHEAD: All right. And before I let you go, of course, it's the final week of the federal parliament leading into the election campaign. How is the party feeling about this election campaign that'll start in earnest after Christmas?
PATERSON: We're feeling very positive. We think we are very competitive. And if you had told me two and a half years ago that we would be this competitive at this point of the cycle, I would have liked to believe you, but I might not have. And yet we are neck and neck in all the opinion polls and the momentum is really heading in our direction. I think it's because Australians are frustrated with the Prime Minister. He doesn't have their priorities at heart. He is distracted and is not focused on the things he should be. I think they're seeing Peter Dutton in a new light and seeing that he is a Prime Minister who cares, who could be a Prime Minister, who would care about our country and deal with the problems facing their lives and get our country back on track.
ADSHEAD: Just as an aside, I know it's a state matter, not necessarily federal, but it all comes together in terms of perceptions, etc. There's just been a failed leadership challenge, if you like. Call it that, against the state Liberal leader, Libby Mettam. It was all very ham fisted and it didn't work out very well. That doesn't help your cause, does it?
PATERSON: I did see some media reports about that. And certainly when those things happen, they can be untidy. But it obviously doesn't reflect on the federal division of the Liberal Party at all. I mean, Peter Dutton's leadership could not be more secure. He's got the overwhelming unanimous support of his party room and he'll be taking a very strong and united team to the election.
ADSHEAD: You obviously know a federal candidate, Ben Small though, that it was he who took some polling to Libby Mettam him and said she might need to consider her position. What do you say to that? That's not helpful.
PATERSON: Look, I did see reports about that and I haven't spoken to Ben about that. So I don't understand his side of that story. But I can speak on behalf of my federal colleagues here in Canberra, in Parliament. We are ruthlessly focused on the federal election and we are ruthlessly focused on getting the cost of living down and ruthlessly focused on making Australians safe.
ADSHEAD: James Paterson, thanks very much for joining us.
PATERSON: Thanks, Gary.
ENDS
