February 12, 2024
ALI MOORE: Senator Paterson, welcome to Drive.
JAMES PATERSON: Thank you Ali.
MOORE: I've given some detail about what was released today, but there was other detail in the documents. Can you take us through it?
PATERSON: A whole lot of information has finally been coughed up by the government. This is the information that they've been refusing to release for months. And now, finally, the Senate processes have forced them to make it public. It's important that we now know that there were seven murderers, 37 sex offenders, 72 people accused of assault or aggravated burglary or kidnaping, who were among that cohort of 149 people released in the community. But even more importantly is the fact that 18 of them have re-offend at the state or federal level, and six of them have breached the conditions of the visas imposed. So that's 24 in total of this group who have re-offend now that they're in the community. But despite that, the government has not made a single application to the Court under the Preventative Detention Regime that was rushed through the Parliament before Christmas.
MOORE: Can I just clarify a couple of things? We're saying that they are sex offenders, violent criminals, murderers. Have they all served time for those crimes committed?
PATERSON: Some of them have served time for those offences. Some of those offences might have occurred overseas, and they have had their visa canceled as a result of the charge or the allegation of those being the case, and they were in immigration detention before the High Court ordered the release.
MOORE: But just I suppose to clarify for people, they were in immigration detention, they were not released from detention where they were being held because of these crimes committed.
PATERSON: Well, they were held in immigration detention, because they failed the character test under our Immigration Act, because they committed a crime or were credibly accused of a serious crime, and therefore had no valid visa to be in Australia. So ordinarily they would have been deported, but they couldn't be deported because no country would take them, partly because of the nature of the offence they committed, and also partly because they might have been stateless or might have had a well-founded fear of persecution.
MOORE: And those that have re-offend, you talked about the 18 plus the six? Are they all still in the community?
PATERSON: Well, that's what we don't know. The government has not yet provided that information and I'll be seeking that from them. We don't know how many of those are in custody? How many have been granted bail, how many are in the community?
MOORE: And the preventative detention laws? You made the point that there have been no applications for that, from what you understand of the situation of some of these release detainees, they should be subject to them? Is that what you're arguing?
PATERSON: I'm genuinely shocked that the government has made zero applications under these laws. We rushed them through the parliament before Christmas because we recognize that some of these people were of a risk to the community and the High Court itself, in their reasons for their decision, said that the parliament should pass a preventive detention order if it wanted to manage the risk to the community. And yet, despite doing so, not a single application have been made. Well no one can suggest that these people don't pose a risk to the community. Some of them have reoffended, and they are accused of, or have been convicted of very serious crimes in the past.
MOORE: So what do you want to see?
PATERSON: I'd like to see the Minister for Home Affairs and the Minister of Immigration to finally make an application to the court to get the highest risk offenders among the cohort off the streets, so they stop reoffending against the community and stop harming Australians.
MOORE: Do you have a sense of how many that would involve, and whether or not their situation would be grave enough to warrant a detention order?
PATERSON: Well, I think the government has the specific details of each case, but I would suggest that seven murderers, 37 sex offenders and 72 people accused of other violent crimes is a good starting point for the risk that they pose to the community.
MOORE: Even if they have served time for those crimes?
PATERSON: Yes, because ordinarily these people would not be in the community because they would have been deported. The only reason why they can't be deported is we can't send them back to their home country, and no third country will take them because of the nature of the offences they've committed.
MOORE: So what happens now?
PATERSON: Well, hopefully the government actually gets off their proverbial and makes an application to the court. Hopefully that actually act to protect the community as the parliament has directed them to. I don't know what else they're waiting for, but hopefully that ministers get into action.
MOORE: At the same time. Today, we've seen the review that has been conducted by the former secretary of the Department of Defense, Dennis Richardson, and that's been a review into the awarding of offshore asylum seeker processing center contracts. He's found that those contracts were awarded to companies with suspected links to arms and drug smuggling, corruption and bribery. Of course, this was a review launched by the current government. But about a time on your watch. It's a pretty damning finding, isn't it?
PATERSON: Well it covered up both the previous government's time in office and this government's time in office. And I note it was released selectively to a journalist in advance of Senate estimates and only publicly released this morning. Perhaps the government wanted to distract from these serious risks to the community from their inaction. But relevantly, Dennis Richardson has found that no minister was involved in the awarding of these contracts. The former secretary of the Department of Home Affairs said no minister was even briefed on the awarding of the contracts, and that the fault lies with the department.
MOORE: Yeah, that that is indeed, true. But he also found that Home Affairs lacked proper due diligence, and he's made significant recommendations around improving integrity, risk, process and culture. Is it not damning that a department as important and trusted with so many very large challenges in Australian society, has a culture and a risk process that clearly didn't stand up to scrutiny?
PATERSON: Well, it is very important that those recommendations have been made. And the departmental secretary, new Secretary Stephanie Foster, in Senate Estimates this morning said that those recommendations have been implemented and that now confident that those processes will be observed and that taxpayers money will be protected.
MOORE: Home Affairs Minister Clare O'Neil says that there is questions to answer by the Opposition Leader, Peter Dutton. She has again to reiterate the fact that this review found no evidence of any ministerial involvement, no deliberate wrongdoing, no criminality. But she says Peter Dutton has walked around Australia presenting himself as a tough guy on the borders for almost a decade. Yet on his watch, potentially hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer funds were being funnelled into companies that were using it for criminal enterprises. The "on his watch" is important isn't it, in our system?
PATERSON: Well, as you say, the former Minister was exonerated by Dennis Richardson, and I don't think the opposition will be taking lectures from the minister, who released 149 people into the community with no plan to protect the community, 24 of whom have breached their visa conditions or re-offended against Australians. That's on her watch as Home Affairs Minister, and she hasn't used the powers available to her to protect the community.
MOORE: Where does where does ministerial accountability and responsibility sit?
PATERSON: It lies when the Minister has the power to act as the Minister for Home Affairs does in this instance. But it is routine and in fact appropriate that ministers are not
involved in contracting and awarding of contracts. That would be inappropriate and the former minister was not involved.
MOORE: Are you confident that that Home Affairs is on the right track now?
PATERSON: Well, that remains to be seen. I'm very concerned by the changes that the government has made to the Home Affairs structure. They've effectively split up the Department of Home Affairs. It's really a Department of Home Affairs in name only now. And that has led to delays in terrorist re-listings, and confusion about responsibility for national security. And I think it remains to be seen whether this government and this minister can get on top of it.
MOORE: And so when we look for accountability, when things like this happen, and we look at what Dennis Richardson has found in his review, where do we go for where do we go to for accountability if it's not the Minister?
PATERSON: Well, the Secretary of the department said before Senate estimates today that it would, in the words of Mr. Richardson, take the wisdom of two Solomons to identify the officials responsible for these decisions. I can only take him at his word. Having conducted this review and having access to documents and evidence that I do not.
MOORE: So no questions to answer?
PATERSON: I didn't say that, I'd said that in the view of the expert reviewer these matters are difficult to determine.
MOORE: Senator James Paterson, I do appreciate your time. Many thanks for joining us.
PATERSON: Thanks, Ali.
ENDS
