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February 6, 2024
RAF EPSTEIN: James Paterson is the Shadow Home Affairs Minister and a Liberal Senator, one of the Liberal Senators for the state of Victoria. Good morning.
JAMES PATERSON: Good morning Raf.
EPSTEIN: You've been opposing the tax cuts as proposed by the Prime Minister. Are you fighting a losing battle?
PATERSON: I think it's never fighting a losing battle to hold parties to the commitments that they took, not just to one election, but to two elections, and which they promised on more than 100 occasions as recently as only a few weeks ago. And I think there is certainly Australians out there who will welcome the tax relief that they're going to get from the government, but they're not going to trust this government again, and they're not going to be able to take seriously any commitment that the Prime Minister makes them at the next election, because how can he commit more emphatically to those commitments than he did to this one?
EPSTEIN: Is that an argument that sticks? To be honest, after speaking to people in Frankston, they kind of expect everyone in politics to change their minds. Do you genuinely think it's a successful argument?
PATERSON: Well, I thought this Prime Minister and his government were going to be different. I mean, he made integrity the centre of his campaign against the previous government. He said he was going to uphold high standards of integrity and transparency and honesty, and he cannot credibly claim that anymore. If it's true that politicians always lie and I hope that's not the case, and I certainly try not to, then Anthony Albanese has just reduced himself to being a standard politician and not being any different at all, which is what he promised to be.
EPSTEIN: On where the tax cuts actually take us. Treasury says the average tax rate for the average worker is going to be lower over a decade. You can't say no to that, can you? Average tax being lower.
PATERSON: Well, it's important just to remember that all that the government is doing is returning the bracket creep, which it has taken from Australians over the last few years, particularly in the last 18 months, where there's been a 27% increase in the income tax paid by Australians. So some of that is being returned, but actually not all of it is. But of course, the Liberal and National parties are always in favour of lower taxes for every Australian at every opportunity, it's unfathomable that we would seek to stop tax cuts flowing to the Australian people, but we are going to hold this Prime Minister to account for his lie.
EPSTEIN: So when you say unfathomable, you'll say yes to this, will you try to restore those bigger tax cuts to those on a higher income?
PATERSON: Well, we will very carefully consider what our tax policy will be for the next term at the election. And we'll announce a comprehensive tax policy in due course and it will be centred around principles of reducing the tax burden as much as possible, keeping faith with our commitments and also being fiscally responsible. And we'll have to take into account the money which has been expended on this tax reduction package.
EPSTEIN: If I can just turn you into a political observer for a moment, on the one hand, quite a few people I spoke to in Frankston don't know who Peter Dutton is. He hasn't fought an election as leader, so I'm not sure how surprising that is. On the other hand, you've got your own side on ABC TV last night, especially Malcolm Turnbull accusing Scott Morrison of being duplicitous and saying things that are utterly untrue. Does the ABC show make a difference to the by-election? Is that an issue? Does that soak through?
PATERSON: Well, if you did vox pops in Frankston Raf, and asked people how many watched the ABC. I'm not sure you would get very strong responses either. I think a lot of Australians are tuned out from the minutiae and the detail of politics. They certainly have views about the former government and they've developing views about this government and what they've delivered. I think these are historical matters, and it's important for the historical record that that story be told so that we can all learn lessons from that period. But I don't think people's vote at the next election is going to rise or fall on an ABC documentary aired last night.
EPSTEIN: The Australian citizen writer-democracy-activist Doctor Yang Hengjun, he's been in prison, I think, since the very beginning of 2019. He's been accused of spying. Apparently he is sick in prison as well. He has now been sentenced to death. That could be commuted to a life sentence. Sentenced To death, did that surprise you?
PATERSON: Yes. This was the far worse than the worst expectations that we had for Yang Hengjun. You're right, he's been in custody now for five years, in a case completely shrouded in secrecy and mystery and totally lacking in transparency or any respect for his human rights as an Australian citizen, which is critically important. For him to be given a death sentence, and for it to be possibly commuted in two years time to a life sentence is effectively a death sentence, because he is not a well man, and he's been kept in very harsh conditions of solitary confinement, very limited access to food and medicine, no access at all to family and friends, very limited access to lawyers and consular officials. These are extremely harsh conditions, and unfortunately, it's a depressing wake up call about the state of the bilateral relationship with Australia and China. Some people were, I think, getting a bit ahead of themselves, thinking that they'd been a fundamental change in our relationship. This is a reminder that this is a very harsh regime that has no regard for Australia or the rights of our citizens.
EPSTEIN: Is Australia ever going to have any sway with the Chinese government? We've got meetings and conversations now at the highest levels. But is there anything we can do to influence that government when it comes to Australian citizens?
PATERSON: Well, I think fundamentally underneath the surface, nothing has changed between Australia and China because China's ambitions and China's approach towards the world hasn't changed, and it is very limited what Australia can do to change that. All we can do is robustly stand up for ourselves and our interests and our values, and make sure the Chinese government understands that we will never shy away from doing so, that they cannot intimidate us into not doing so, and that's critical for them to understand. But yes, I mean, this is a very large, very powerful, very authoritarian nation that has its own worldview. And the tactical changes that they have made to the bilateral relationship don't reflect any fundamental change in their approach to the world or to Australia.
EPSTEIN: James Paterson is the Shadow Home Affairs Minister and one of the Liberal Senators for Victoria. James Paterson, thanks so much.
PATERSON: Thanks Raf.
ENDS
