January 30, 2025
HAMISH MACDONALD: The Shadow Home Affairs Minister is James Paterson. He's on the line this morning. Good morning, Senator Paterson. Fair enough from the Premier there to explain the reason why this wasn't made public earlier.
JAMES PATERSON: Good morning, Hamish. I do understand what the Premier had to say, but I do think there is other considerations that need to be weighed into a decision like that, particularly the targets or alleged targets of these attacks, I think have a right to know that they were being targeted like this because they may want to take precautions to protect themselves. I give credit to the Premier, though. He was up front when he was asked about this. He was direct when he was asked about this. He also said when he got briefed about this, the Prime Minister has not done the same. The Prime Minister refused to say on ABC radio this morning when he was briefed. There is no good operational reason why the Prime Minister should refuse to say when he was briefed about this and he must be up front today. Was he briefed on the 20th of January like the Premier was? Was he briefed later? And what actions did he take after he was briefed, did he convene the National Security Committee of Cabinet or not?
MACDONALD: Why is it important when he was told? Just explain that. And I'm sensitive to the fact that many listeners are expressing, not just today but over the course of the last week or so, concern about the politicisation of these matters, given the sensitivities.
PATERSON: It's very important to understand when the Prime Minister was briefed about this because, firstly, we need to know that our counter-terrorism framework is working seamlessly in the face of one of the most serious domestic terrorism crises in living memory for most Australians. If the Prime Minister wasn't briefed, that's a problem because counter-terrorism is a joint state and federal responsibility. We know the Counter-Terrorism Task Force, which is a joint New South Wales, Federal Police Initiative, has been engaged in this matter. So the Prime Minister should have been briefed and if he wasn't, that's a problem. The second reason why we need to know whether he was briefed and when he was briefed is to understand what actions he as the Prime Minister of our country took in response to that. What measures did he put in place to reassure the community? What action did he take to protect the community? Was the National Security Committee of Cabinet convened? That's the premier decision making body for counter-terrorism and law enforcement and national security in our country. And if it didn't convene it then we have a problem.
MACDONALD: But obviously, in terms of the public facing side of all of this, New South Wales Police have been stepping up their patrols. They've been very active in speaking to the public through the media. Obviously the New South Wales government is taking steps in terms of provisions, legislative provisions. The Federal government has talked about its response to this as well. National Cabinet was convened. What more do you want from our leaders?
PATERSON: I think there are so many more things the government could and should do, but it will also be very interesting to know whether the National Cabinet was briefed because the National Cabinet met on the 21st of [January], which was we know at least after Chris Minns was briefed. We don't know whether it was after the Prime Minister was briefed. So were state and territory leaders briefed? Because they should have been briefed if there are terrorism attacks happening in our country or being planned or prepared for because they might happen in their jurisdiction and they might make different decisions about the allocation of resources to police or the legislation to deal with it. And if they don't know, that's a big problem.
MACDONALD: I want to just play you a bit of Dave Hudson, Deputy commissioner here in New South Wales, just talking this morning here on 702 about the security provisions around their operations.
[CLIP START]
DAVID HUDSON: It's normal that we don't, if we're doing a current and covert investigation and certainly in the counter-terrorism space and historically I can go back to Strike force Pendennis, Strike force Neath, Strike force [unintelligible], Strike force Appleby and even last year, Mingary, where we mitigated threat in relation to a terrorism investigation, we were aware that there was no ongoing threat to the community and then tried to and did identify those perpetrators responsible and arrested them and then announced what we had done. But that's important that we get clean air to investigate these matters.
[CLIP END]
MACDONALD: Clean air is what they're seeking. I mean, do you give them that by talking to National Cabinet about it, for example?
PATERSON: Well, I mean, National Cabinet is a secure meeting forum. And the political leaders of our country, the Prime Minister and Premiers, must be trusted to be able to be briefed on matters. If they can't be trusted we have, frankly, far more problems than even I feared we did. The National Security Committee of Cabinet meets in a secure, compartmentalised facility where top secret intelligence is briefed to them of an incredibly sensitive nature. So if NSC can't be convened for that reason, we have very serious problems. It has been briefed to the media this morning that the government will be calling a National Security Committee of Cabinet meeting today. But what has changed today that causes that to be called? I mean, the only thing that's changed today is that this issue is now public. But that shouldn't have any bearing at all on whether NSC is convened. NSC should have been convened ten days ago if that's indeed when the Prime Minister first found out about this.
MACDONALD: James Paterson, appreciate your time this morning. Thank you very much.
ENDS
