December 9, 2024
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Hundreds of people gathered in solidarity with the Jewish community at a vigil in Ripponlea yesterday, that's in Melbourne. The same suburb where the Adass Israel Synagogue was set alight on Friday morning. The investigation is ongoing, but it is now being described as an act of terrorism personally by the Prime Minister, who says the attack is anti-Semitic, despicable and un-Australian. Victoria's Premier, Jacinta Allan, says counter-terrorism units of the Australian Federal Police and Victoria Police will meet today and is still searching for three suspects. The Shadow Minister for Home Affairs and Cyber Security, James Paterson, joined me a short time ago. Senator, welcome to the program.
JAMES PATERSON: Thanks Patricia.
KARVELAS: So the Prime Minister says the attack was anti-Semitic, despicable, un-Australian, and that in his personal view, it was a terror attack. Is that not satisfactory to the Opposition?
PATERSON: Well, it's welcome, but I'm really not sure what took the Prime Minister 72 hours to find the words to condemn it in such clear terms. It was immediately apparent to the Jewish community on Friday morning what this was. Yet the Prime Minister hid and failed to front up and say in clear terms what he thought that was. I also think it's very strange that neither the Prime Minister nor a single senior national security member of his cabinet has come to Melbourne to visit the synagogue to express their solidarity with the community, not the Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister, not the Home Affairs Minister, not the Attorney-General, not the Foreign Minister. We're now into the fourth day since this horrible event and still they haven't shown their face so I think that's deeply disappointing.
KARVELAS: You were at the vigil in Melbourne yesterday. Do people believe it to be an act of terror?
PATERSON: Yes, there's no doubt in my mind that the dozens and dozens of members of the Jewish community who came up to me and also non-Jews who turned up to show their solidarity with the community feel like this is an act of terror. It's hard to think of what else it could be when two masked men allegedly in the middle of the night turned up with a sledgehammer, a broom and an accelerant and set on fire a synagogue while there were Jews inside praying.
KARVELAS: Look, I think that people can have opinions about what they see it as. But do you accept that there is a problem with just sharing our opinions at a time when there is an official definition of what makes it either a terror attack or not, and that authorities go through a process?
PATERSON: Well, even the Prime Minister has now conceded there's no problem with any political leader sharing their opinion and calling this out for what it is. That doesn't in any way impede the process that police will go through. Although I am concerned that that is taking longer than it should. There was media reports that a senior member of the Australian Federal Police will be flying to Melbourne today to meet with their Victorian counterparts to discuss this and contemplate whether or not to declare it a terrorist attack. Why didn't that happen on Friday? Has the National Security Committee of cabinet been convened? Has the government discussed how they're going to prevent this happening to another synagogue or another place of worship? I mean, the alleged assailants behind this attack are still at large, and there is a very real risk that there will be others in the community who will seek to copy this or replicate it against other places of faith and that would be a terrible thing for our country.
KARVELAS: The Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus says it's the police agency's role to make the official call, not the government's. Doesn't there have to be a separation of powers here?
PATERSON: Well, I mean if he's concerned about that, he should have a conversation with the Prime Minister and also the Home Affairs Minister, Tony Burke, who've now belatedly agreed that this is a terror incident. I mean, I don't know why we should be so worried or uncomfortable about this. The police have their process which they'll follow. Political leaders have expectations on us too, and the community expects us to lead and they expect us to send clear signals about what we tolerate and what we don't tolerate. And one of the reasons why we're having the problems that we are in our country right now is for 14 months, this government has failed to grasp the seriousness of the anti-semitism crisis in our country, failed to recognise it for the cancer it is and failed to call it out unapologetically and unequivocally from the very beginning. And I think extremists have been emboldened, particularly because they have not personally faced consequences for their behavior. Where are the charges? Where are the convictions? Where are the jail terms for people who've blatantly violated the law over the last year?
KARVELAS: The meeting later this morning between state and federal agencies, including the AFP and ASIO, will happen. What do you want to come out of that?
PATERSON: Well, I want to make sure that all the resources are being put behind this investigation to catch the people who are allegedly responsible for it and to make sure that no one else tries to copy it against any other place of faith. That's the first and most important thing that must come out of this meeting, and I'm disappointed that it hasn't happened already. The second is, I hope they do look at the facts and look at the evidence and come to the same conclusion that the Jewish community and now even the Prime Minister has, which is that this is an act of terror. It's hard to understand what else it could be. And that is important because if it is declared to be an act of terror, then the penalties available to prosecutors are more significant than otherwise available. This wouldn't be a simple act of criminal arson. It would be a terrorist attack. And the resources available to the investigation are greater than it would ordinarily be the case if this was a simple criminal act.
KARVELAS: Your side of politics has been very critical of the government and the Prime Minister. Peter Dutton has pointed the finger at the Prime Minister saying people do feel betrayed that this has happened under the Prime Minister's watch. Now the Prime Minister's defense over the weekend was pretty strong, saying he's denounced anti-Semitism at every juncture. And indeed if you go through his public statements, as I have, he has denounced anti-Semitism and he has appointed an antisemitism envoy. Shouldn't there be a coming together of everyone to denounce anti-Semitism rather than a political blame game?
PATERSON: Well, we have had no hesitation in denouncing anti-semitism in the clearest and most unambiguous terms since the 7th of October...
KARVELAS: And hasn't the Prime Minister done that as well? I mean, I've listened to his statements. He has denounced anti-semitism.
PATERSON: No, I don't think you can say that he's done so with the same moral clarity as the Opposition has. I mean, it has often been the case over the last year when there's been a horrific act of anti-semitism that the Prime Minister and his senior ministers have stood up and said, we condemn anti-semitism and Islamophobia. Now, let's be clear. Both of those things are equally morally abhorrent, but they are not equally prevalent. There's been far more anti-semitism in our country over the last year than any other form of hatred. And because the Prime Minister has been unable to call it out on its own when it happens, that has sent a very bad message to the Jewish community and others that their experience of racism, their experience of bigotry is not worthy of stand alone condemnation, that it has to be balanced against the condemnation against of other hatreds...
KARVELAS: That's interesting.
PATERSON: And that is sending a very bad message.
KARVELAS: So you're saying, what you're pinpointing, because he says he has denounced anti-Semitism and, you know, there are kind of many examples of when he has. But you're saying because he hasn't only said that, that's the problem.
PATERSON: Well, think about it this way, Patricia. Is there any other form of racism when it occurs in our community that we say that we condemn it with another form? If there is an instance of anti-indigenous racism, no political leader ever stands up and says we condemn anti-indigenous racism and we also condemn anti-Asian racism. We should call out racism when it occurs against a targeted community in those instances. If there's an instance of anti-indigenous racism or anti-Asian racism or anti-Semitism or anti-Islamophobia, we should call them out as they occur. But we don't need to balance communities’ experience of racism against each other. It is not a competition and it does not take anything away from another community if you just simply condemn anti-semitism in isolation.
KARVELAS: Well, in this case, there's no doubt about it. This is an anti-semitic attack. There's absolutely no contest that that is what has happened here. But you're holding the Prime Minister responsible, it seems, for this. If you listen to any of the movement that's going on at the moment, firstly, the movement, which is anti-war, has said it distances itself from this attack, but they've also been very critical of the Prime Minister. I mean, you know, he's not exactly in solidarity with a movement in relation to the Middle East war, is he?
PATERSON: Well, let me give a second example of the failure of leadership since the 7th October. Not only has he failed to call out anti-semitism with clarity, he's also failed to ensure that the law has been enforced. Week in, week out, in the cities of our biggest states, particularly Melbourne and Sydney, people have displayed the logos and symbols and flags of listed terrorist organisations. Not only Hamas, but the al-Qassam Brigades of Hamas. Not only Hezbollah, but other organisations as well. That is in clear defiance of the law. The federal parliament unanimously passed a piece of legislation last year which outlawed that practice, and to this day, there has still not been one conviction for anybody violating that law. And that sends a very bad message to the community that there are no consequences for this behavior and so why would they fear consequences for even worse behavior if they think they can get away with this?
KARVELAS: And how is that the Prime Minister's responsibility, though? Who are you holding to account? Who are you criticizing for that? Because the Prime Minister doesn't go and arrest people.
PATERSON: No, but the Prime Minister and his Minister for Home Affairs and his Attorney-General had the opportunity to make very clear to the federal police and others what their expectations of them are. And when Peter Dutton was the Minister for Home Affairs, he had a standing meeting with the AFP where he made it very clear to them what the government's priorities were for the AFP. For example, countering child exploitation was a very important issue for Peter when he was minister. And the AFP understood that in no uncertain terms. They established the Australian Center for Countering Child Exploitation and they locked up a record number of child sex offenders and disrupted child sex operations even happening offshore. Where has been the leadership on this issue? Where has been the direction to the AFP to pursue and to prioritise anti-semitism for the cancer that it is to our society? It's been absent.
KARVELAS: Many thanks for joining us this morning, appreciate your time James Paterson.
PATERSON: Thanks, Patricia.
ENDS
