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April 29, 2025
SALLY SARA:
Well, James Paterson is the Shadow Home Affairs Minister and Coalition Campaign Spokesperson, and joins me now. James Paterson, welcome back to Breakfast.
JAMES PATERSON:
Good morning. Thank you for having me.
SALLY SARA:
Firstly, on the issue of Welcome to Country ceremonies at ANZAC Dawn Services, why has Peter Dutton changed his position on this?
JAMES PATERSON:
I don't think he has. He's been asked questions about it directly, and he's given honest answers. He said that it's a matter for organisers to decide whether or not they want to have it at events. But in his view, generally speaking, not specifically at ANZAC Day ceremonies, but generally speaking often it has been overdone. I agree with him. I think sometimes it becomes tokenistic and insincere. I think there's a genuine place for it at appropriate events. And Peter's given the example of the opening of the Parliament at the start of a term as an appropriate place to do it. But when you're having a Zoom meeting, probably not everybody on the call needs to do it, when you are having a conference, once is probably enough, not every single speaker. I think some Australians feel that it's just been overdone.
SALLY SARA:
On ANZAC Day, though?
JAMES PATERSON:
Look, that's really up to the organisers. So I've been at ceremonies that both do have a Welcome to Country or an Acknowledgement of Country and at ones where they don't have it. It's really up to the local RSL or whoever is responsible for organising the local ANZAC Day ceremony to decide.
SALLY SARA:
On Friday, on ANZAC Day, Peter Dutton said, we have a proud Indigenous heritage in this country, and we should be proud to celebrate that as part of today. But Peter Dutton is now raising serious questions about the appropriateness of Welcome to Country ceremonies on particular days. Why change?
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, what Peter has said is that he was asked a question about what he thought veterans wanted. His assessment is he thought a lot of the veterans don't like it and would prefer that it not happen. But he's also said, we're not going to establish any national law about this. We're not dictating from the federal government when it should and shouldn't happen. It's up to organisers. But my view is that one of the really appropriate and meaningful things that does happen on ANZAC Day is the acknowledgement of Indigenous service in the ADF. Because the history in our country is that there are Indigenous people who signed up to fight for our country, when frankly, our country didn't treat them very well as citizens at the time.
SALLY SARA:
And it was images and mentions of those Indigenous soldiers that attracted boos from some protesters in Melbourne on Friday.
JAMES PATERSON:
And that is an utter disgrace. It is never appropriate to boo at an ANZAC Day ceremony for any reason, but it is especially not appropriate to boo the images of Indigenous soldiers who bravely and proudly served our country in uniform, especially when, frankly, their country didn't treat them very well as citizens at the time. So I think there is a very important place for acknowledgement of that service. And that really is the primary purpose of ANZAC Day, which is to acknowledge the service of all people who served our country in uniform.
SALLY SARA:
Why has Peter Dutton been focusing on this issue now after some accused neo-Nazis were part of this protest in Melbourne? Why raise it now?
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, it wasn't Peter Dutton that raised this. He's been asked questions at press conferences and in the debate, and he's answered those questions. And I think it's important for a political leader, especially in an election campaign, to be open and honest and direct and deal with questions that are put to him, and that's what Peter's been doing.
SALLY SARA:
Do you worry about the impact on Indigenous people in Australia of these symbolic steps from the Coalition, for example, not wanting to have an Aboriginal flag displayed for standard events and expressing some concerns about welcome to country ceremonies being overdone?
JAMES PATERSON:
Our focus is on practical outcomes for Indigenous Australians, and I think that's what most Indigenous Australians and other Australians think is the most important thing the Federal government can do. We've seen in this term of Parliament half a billion dollars spent on a failed referendum, which divided our country. And I think the tragic and unforgivable thing about that is that the Albanese Government did not have a Plan B when the Voice referendum failed. It's still not clear today whether they remain committed to the other elements of the Uluru Statement from the Heart, including Treaty and Truth, and they've got no idea about how to solve these problems. I think Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price will be an amazing minister for Indigenous Australians, and she's very determined to solve the issues facing Indigenous Australians across the country, but especially in remote areas, where the circumstances are much worse off than others.
SALLY SARA:
Why is Peter Dutton saying things like, we have a proud Indigenous heritage in this country, and we should be proud to celebrate it, but not being willing to have an Indigenous flag behind him when he's speaking?
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, Peter has very clearly explained his rationale on the flag issue, which is that he thinks there are no countries in the world that are comparable to Australia, that are strong, unified countries that have multiple flags. Australia has one national flag, it is the Australian national flag. And that doesn't mean there isn't a place for the Indigenous flag or the Torres Strait Islander flag either. But as Prime Minister, when he's standing up and addressing the nation, he said he thinks it's appropriate to have the Australian flag behind him when he does that, and I agree.
SALLY SARA:
Let's talk about the issue of One Nation. As campaign spokesman, the Coalition has chosen to preference Pauline Hanson's One Nation in a significant number of lower house seats on how to vote cards. That's a break in policy from what happened under Scott Morrison and dating back to John Howard. What's changed to make that acceptable to the Coalition?
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, as you know, Sally, this is really a matter for the party organisation. But speaking for myself, the Liberal party preferences will not be distributed to One Nation candidates in any seat around the country because One Nation is not in contention to win any lower house seat anywhere around the country. That is in contrast to Labor preferences, where in 149 out of 150 seats, they're preferencing the Greens, who can win those seats and will receive Labor preferences if Labor is eliminated in some of those seats. And the Prime Minister himself has said that the Greens have engaged in antisemitic racism, so we're certainly not taking any advice from Labor on this.
SALLY SARA:
But if you're saying that One Nation doesn't have much of a chance in these seats, why preference them?
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, preferences, as I said, are a matter for the party organisation.
SALLY SARA:
But you're part of that party.
JAMES PATERSON:
No, it's actually dealt with by the Federal Director on behalf of the party organisation, and there are a range of considerations that go into it. But let me give you one example. In some Senate races around the country, the Liberal Party is preferencing the Labor party as part of our top six candidates. Now I assure you that's not because we want to see Labor Senators elected, but we have to fill out the ballot paper, and we have to nominate parties. And sometimes you run out of other parties before you are preferencing your principal political opponents. It's not an endorsement of them.
SALLY SARA:
Do you agree with the decision from the party if you're putting some delineation between yourself and the party structures up top?
JAMES PATERSON:
Oh yes, I completely support the Federal Director and the party and the way they've handled this. I'm not seeking to distance myself from it, I'm just saying that that's how the negotiations take place.
SALLY SARA:
Nine newspapers are reporting that volunteers have been directed by a group linked to the Chinese Communist Party to work on Monique Ryan's re-election in the seat of Kooyong. What information does the Coalition have about that?
JAMES PATERSON:
Well, just from the media reports, I'm very concerned on face value that we have potentially a foreign influence arm of an authoritarian government being involved in an Australian election and directing volunteers to support particular candidates. It could be an act of foreign interference that violates the legislation that was passed on a bipartisan basis about seven years ago. And I think it's critical that it's investigated by the relevant authorities. And I also hope that Monique Ryan is transparent about her involvement in this.
SALLY SARA:
James Paterson, thank you again for making time for joining us throughout the campaign. Thank you.
JAMES PATERSON:
Always a pleasure.
ENDS