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October 18, 2023
TRANSCRIPT
Wednesday 18 October 2023
Doorstop, Parliament House
Subjects: Five Eyes meeting in California, Chinese government industrial espionage, China relations, repatriation flights Israel and Gaza, Fiji PM in Canberra, Gaza hospital bombing
JAMES PATERSON: Well good morning, I'd just like to start by, first of all, observing that the ASIO Director General Mike Burgess, overnight in California has made some incredibly strong comments about the industrial espionage campaign being waged by the Chinese government against Western interests, including Australia. These are highly significant comments which reflect the seriousness of this issue. It is not often that the ASIO Director General directly calls out by name China as a perpetrator of national security threats to Australia. But we do know that they are the number one source of espionage and foreign interference for Australia that the number one source of cyber attacks on Australia and that the number one source of industrial espionage threats to Australia and our allies. And this is malign behaviour that should not occur. It's very important that it's called out and it's very important that we respond.
JOURALIST: Do you think those comments could interfere with the Government's efforts to stabilise the relationship? They're not going to like it in China, obviously.
PATERSON: Well, the Chinese government might object to this, but it is true and I think it's important that we are always honest about these issues because that is what is happening and we shouldn't pretend, or lie on behalf of the Chinese government and say that it is not behaving in this way when it is. If it does any damage to the bilateral relationship, well, then the person and the party which is responsible, that is the Chinese government that could stop these attacks on Australia and our allies at any time. If they continue to choose to do so, will then that will have implications for the relationship.
JOURALIST: How significant was it that we saw these five heads of intelligence agencies come together in a public forum I guess, it's never been done before?
PATERSON: It's very unusual and very significant. It's often the case that our Five Eyes intelligence partners meet and collaborate and work very closely. It's the oldest and deepest intelligence sharing partnership in the history of the world. But it's very rare for them to come together publicly and to make public comments like that. And for us to join Canada and New Zealand and the United Kingdom, as well as the United States, to make this very strong statement about industrial espionage and intellectual property theft is a significant and I think, a welcome statement. We need to be honest about this because Australians and Australian businesses need to understand how serious the threat is.
JOURALIST: The Prime Minister is going to be travelling to China in the not too distant future. Is this something that you think he should raise while he's over there?
PATERSON: Absolutely. The Prime Minister must raise that to raise the full range of issues in the bilateral relationship, including the continued unjustified detention of Yang Henjung, the ongoing trade sanctions, the industrial espionage and intellectual property theft, the cyber attacks, the foreign interference, the espionage. All of those issues must be raised in a frank and direct way.
JOURALIST: Senator, Are you happy with the federal government's response to what's unfolding in Israel at the moment? We've seen flights planned and then taken away. And then the Defence Minister said yesterday that I thought met an immediate demand of Australians wanting to leave. And now the Home Affairs Minister has said today there's going to be another flight, possibly tomorrow. What are your thoughts on that sort of response in that effort to bring Australians home?
PATERSON: I understand this is complex operationally and there are very serious safety risks that have to be taken into account, but it is important that as long as it is safe to do so, the Australian Government continues to provide options for Australians to leave. It's important for Australians in Israel to understand that opportunity to leave may come to an end soon, and they may find themselves trapped there. So if they want to leave, now is the time to do so. I hope the government continues to provide it. It is good that we've had so many Australians already evacuated, but it would be unfortunate if we cut that short while it was still safe to do so.
JOURALIST: The Fijian leader is here tonight ceremonial welcome, meeting with our Prime Minister, he said yesterday at the Lowy Institute. Don't make us choose between China and the US. We just want peace in the Pacific. What do you think of those comments?
PATERSON: Well it's great to have the Prime Minister here, it's a very important relationship between Australia and Fiji, very important partner in the Pacific. And the truth is that Australia and the United States and our partners have never asked any of our partners to choose between us, we never tell them that they must pick a side. We want them to choose their own interests and choose their own sovereignty, and we want to support them to do so. We are not a party which says you can't be friends or you can't have dealings with any other country if you want to have dealings with us. We respect their sovereignty and their right to self-determination and we respect their right to make decisions in their own interests, and we want to support them to do so.
JOURALIST: What about your response to this bombing of a hospital in Gaza?
PATERSON: It's very distressing news out of Gaza this morning. A shocking loss of human life. At this early stage that it's still disputed as to who is directly responsible for this, whether it was a misfired Israeli airstrike or whether it was a Palestinian Islamic Jihad or a Hamas rocket which was fired into Israel but fell in Gaza. If it was the latter, then that would be consistent with what has happened in the past. It is often the case in previous conflicts where up to 40% of the missiles fired out of Gaza by those terrorist groups directed at Israel, in fact fall in Gaza and end up killing civilians and others in Gaza. So it's possible that it's either case. But ultimately those who are morally responsible for this is Hamas. No matter who is directly responsible for this incident, it is Hamas that launched this attack, that initiated this war and responses like these were always going to happen and civilian casualties were always going to arise. And they knew that. It's one of the reasons why they hide their munitions in hospitals. They hide them in schools, they hide them in mosques, they hide them in apartment buildings. They know that that will cause civilian casualties, and they're okay with that. And that reflects very badly on them.
JOURALIST: Do you think that Israel's response has been proportionate?
PATERSON: I don't like this argument at all about proportionality. If we were going to expect Israel to be proportionate, we would expect them to go and do in Gaza what Hamas did in Israel. Israel does not operate like that. It's a liberal democracy. It's a rule of law country. They don't deliberately target civilians, they don't kidnap them, they don't rape them, they don't murder babies. I don't want to see Israel respond in a proportionate way and match what Hamas did. I want to see Israel respond as a liberal democracy, which is not to tolerate a terrorist entity on their doorstep, but to take all reasonable steps, as they always do, to minimise civilian casualties. Thanks everyone.
ENDS
