January 18, 2024
KENNY HEATLEY: I'm joined live by shadow Home Affairs and Cyber Security Minister James Paterson. James, thanks for your time. So the Chinese ambassador said officials in Beijing had assured him that China was not behind the target of Australian Navy divers in a sonar pulse attack in November, instead suggesting it was Japan saying that if it was China, the divers would have had catastrophic injuries or would have died. What's your response to that?
JAMES PATERSON: Well, good morning. One of the problems of being a Chinese diplomat abroad is that you have an audience of one, and it's an audience at home, and that's Xi Jinping. And everything you say and do is about pleasing that audience, not the host country who you are trying to influence. And that leads you to say utterly absurd things that completely undermine your credibility as a diplomat as the ambassador said yesterday. It is ridiculous in the extreme to suggest that this was Japan. I thought one of the other very revealing things that he said was that we would avoid trouble as long as we stayed off China's doorstep. Well, the problem with that is that China has a very expansive definition of what constitutes its doorstep. It's not just its own territorial waters. It's not just its own exclusive economic zone. It's international waters and in fact, in this case, Japan's exclusive economic zone. In fact, in February 2022, you might remember that a Chinese naval vessel, shone a bright laser at an Australian Air Force surveillance plane in our exclusive economic zone. Only a few kilometres off our border in our own air zone. And so if China's doorstep includes the Arafura Sea to the north of the Northern Territory, then it's a pretty expensive definition and it's going to be pretty hard to avoid conflict with the PLA. The reason why the PLA is doing this is because it's been instructed to do this. It happens repeatedly, not just with Australia, but to Canada, the United States. Look at what's happening in the Philippines right now. They are pushing up and contesting every zone all around the world well beyond their doorstep. And it makes normal relations, healthy relations, bilateral relations very difficult.
HEATLEY: And the Ambassador laid down the challenge for Australia to go beyond simply stabilising relations with China, urging the federal government to restart joint military exercises and collaborate with China on science and technology. Is this a good idea? Michael Shoebridge, who we had on the show earlier, doesn't seem to think so.
PATERSON: I'm deeply skeptical that closer military relations or joint exercises with the Chinese Communist Party is possible in the current strategic environment, given their posture in the world. I mean, if they're not even willing to admit that their own vessels deliberately engaged in conduct which caused harm to Australian Navy divers, then how on earth could we safely conduct a military exercise with them? And I hope that the Albanese government swiftly rules this out. I note that when he was the Shadow Minister for Defence, Richard Marles gave a speech in China in which he did urge closer military relations and closer operations with the Chinese Communist Party and the PLA. And I think he should clarify today whether or not he agrees with this request of the Chinese ambassador and whether or not he endorses it.
HEATLEY: Okay, according to the DFAT website, the Australian government will contribute $20 million to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, or UNWRA. The United States House Republicans are demanding testimony from the head of that United Nations agency that the Republicans allege Aids Hamas terrorists with food, fuel and supplies meant for humanitarian relief. Now, the white House says there's no evidence of this, but do you have any concerns at all that they might be Australian taxpayer money making its way into the hands of Hamas through UNWRA?
PATERSON: I do. There are very well documented concerns with UNWRA, including the alleged siphoning of its funds by Hamas, but also the promotion of anti-semitism in UNWRA run schools and the glorification of terrorism. And in fact, the Foreign Minister has effectively conceded this overnight. She said in her press conference that she raised this issue with the president of the Palestinian Authority and told him that she expected Australian taxpayer funds to be well spent. The problem with that is, is that the Palestinian Authority has no authority in Gaza. It hasn't for almost 20 years after Ariel Sharon withdrew the IDF from Gaza in 2005 and Hamas used the opportunity to push the Palestinian Authority out. So, I have no idea how the Palestinian Authority is able to assure that Australian taxpayer’s money will not be misspent in Gaza, will not be appropriated by Hamas. And if that is Penny Wong's only plan to ensure Australian taxpayers dollars doesn't end up inadvertently funding terrorism, then I think it's totally inadequate. She needs to revisit it.
HEATLEY: James Paterson, appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much.
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