June 25, 2024
Senator Anne Ruston: I'm here today with James Paterson to draw the attention, the very clear attention, to the Australian public that the current model for regulating vaping that the Government is doubling down on is simply not working. It is not preventing Australian children getting access to vaping products.
We believe that we need to have a model that not only cracks down on the emerging black market that is rampant across the country, but it has to equally protect Australia's children from the damages and the danger of vaping.
So today, we are announcing that we want to put in place a model that works. Our model will be a strictly-regulated retail model, similar to the kind of model that regulates tobacco products in this country - Plain packaging, behind the counter, and making sure that nobody under the age of 18 can legally or illegally get access to these products through this means.
And what we've seen over the last 24 hours is an extraordinary chaos in the Labor Party. Last week, they were absolutely committed to a policy that saw vapes only to be able to be prescribed by a doctor. Yesterday, they've done a dirty deal, which we'll hear about later today, which will allow pharmacies to be able to prescribe and dispense vapes without having to get a prescription from the doctor. We don't know what the Labor Party is doing here. But this is just another example of complete chaos when it comes to the vaping policy in this country.
But worse than that, yesterday 6000 small businesses, our frontline community pharmacists who provide primary care to many millions of Australians, found out that they are to be the dispensing body, and they are to be the disposal body, for this new policy. They found it out by a Greens press release.
This government has shown such extraordinary contempt for small business and extraordinary contempt for our frontline primary care providers, our pharmacists. The pharmacists have come out and expressed their concern about this particular model. And they I'm sure will have more to say about the lack of thought that's gone into this, because there’s a lack of consultation or the unintended
consequences as to why this model is going to be very difficult to be able to work across the whole of Australia.
But the reality is, if you want to be serious about stopping children getting access to vapes, you have to be serious about enforcement, and that's what our policy will do.
Senator James Paterson: Thanks Anne. Under Labor's watch, a war for control over the illegal tobacco and illegal vaping market has exploded, literally. In fact, in my home state of Victoria over the last year, more than 40 tobacconists and vape stores have been blown up as part of a war for control over the illegal tobacco and illegal vaping market.
Labor has utterly failed to tackle the black market on their watch. And yet as part of this grubby deal with the Greens, all they are proposing to do to tackle this serious criminality in our communities is $25 million over two years for Border Force to stop some vapes hopefully getting in.
The Coalition will have a very different approach. Under our regulated model, we will give 10 times as much to the AFP and Border Force for a new taskforce. $250 million over the next four years for a taskforce that will tackle both at the border and in the community this serious wanton criminality we're seeing with illegal vapes and illegal tobacco. We are utterly committed to stamping out the black market, and only the Coalition's approach will effectively do so.
Journalist: Sorry, one point of clarification, you mentioned plain packaging. Under this scheme that you’re announcing, would there still be flavoured vapes or would they be the flavourless types? You know, mint or menthol?
Senator Ruston: Well, certainly we would seeking to make sure the content of vapes needs to be first and foremost, it needs to be safe. So we'd be seeking for the TGA to be the body that regulated the content, because we know that so much of the illegal vape content coming into our country has got unknown and dangerous chemicals contained in it. We would also seek to make sure that the flavours that are predatory against children are also outlawed by our policy.
Journalist: But you will be able to get flavours beyond that mint/menthol restrictions under the current scheme?
Senator Ruston: Well, obviously, we will continue with our work in terms of developing this precise model. But one of the things that we need to do is to strike a balance between making sure that we don't force existing vapers to the black market. We must shut this black market down, it's run by organised crime syndicates. But at the same time, you know, making sure that we have got a regulated model that first and foremost protects children and restricts children’s access to these predatory vapes. But at the same time, understanding that consenting adults clearly have made a choice that they wish to vape and we need to make sure that their access to those vapes is in a way that is not forcing them to the black market, but at the same time is protecting access to them in a regulated and sensible manner, which is what we're proposing.
Journalist: Senator Paterson, can I just ask on another topic – Julian Assange… [Interrupted]
Senator Paterson: Can we just deal with vaping first? Happy to come to other matters after.
Journalist: Senator Ruston, on vaping. Do you see any role for pharmacists in this field when it comes to vapes that have been prescribed to help them to quit smoking? Is there any role for them to play in dispensing there?
Senator Ruston: Well, I think that's one of the things that we'd like to have a conversation with community pharmacy and with the AMA and RACGP, because what we would be seeking to do, would be to limit the nicotine content that would be available in our retail model. If there was a prescription model that suggested that somebody who had a long-term addiction to cigarettes would wish to get off it, required a higher level of nicotine to be reduced over time for the purposes of them quitting smoking, then we would seek to enable that the existing model for that purpose alone to still remain in place.
Journalist: Could I ask, sorry, your policy is about restricting children from vaping and trying to restrict the amount of vapes that are out there in the market. How would selling vapes at more stores, in more locations achieve that goal? This seems quite conflicted.
Senator Ruston: The issue that we have always had with the model that the Government is now doubling down on, is that in the absence of proper enforcement, you cannot control the marketplace. You can come out with all the ideological policy positions you like. But unless you actually put in place the mechanisms in order for them to be delivered, it doesn't work and that is why we have made a significant announcement today on enforcement, 10 times the enforcement money, because without enforcement, no policy ever works.
Journalist: But you could beef up the enforcement money without changing the access. You could keep it at what the government's original plan was or the amended plan under the Greens’ amendments, and beef up the enforcement. Why make vapes more available in stores?
Senator Ruston: Currently, we have a model, a harm reduction model, that's working very successfully in getting children not to take up smoking [cigarettes]. And so, what we want to do is use this proven model that currently exists, that allows adults if they wish to undertake this particular pastime, they're welcome to do so, but is actually regulated in such a way that protects children. And makes sure that we have got a model that has a proven track record of harm reduction, which is tobacco, and we would apply the same principles to that harm reduction model to vapes.
Journalist: Sorry if I’ve missed this, but where would they be sold on your model? Is it service stations, news agents?
Senator Ruston: One of the things that we would like is to work with the states and territories particularly to come up with a uniform licensing regime. Because right now, we know that every state and territory has got a different licensing regime when it comes to tobacco, and we'd like the states and territories to work with us so that we have a uniform licensing program, so that we are able to license and regulate the sale. So, for instance, you know, to be able to sell these products, you would need to be a fit and proper person. To be able to sell these products, you would have to adhere to the laws around those licensing arrangements. And it would give us the opportunity, if people were breaking the law, that we would have enforcement capability
Journalist: Could the same types of retailers who sell cigarettes sell vapes under this model, presumably?
Senator Ruston: We would seek for them to be licensed. So obviously, the licensing requirements of those stores that would be able to sell it – They would have to meet with those licensing requirements. The details will have to be worked out with states and territories, because the states and territories are the ones that are at the frontline of point of sale.
Journalist: Would you like to see a situation where the same people who sell cigarettes currently can become licensed to sell vapes?
Senator Ruston: Well, that is the proposal, that we would have a uniform and consistent approach to vapes as currently is for cigarettes, and the same sort of rules and protections and regulations and penalties and enforcement would be in place for vapes as it is for cigarettes.
Journalist: So, would there be a uniform excise that would apply to vapes and cigarettes?
Senator Ruston: Well, they are two quite different products in the sense of the actual content, but what we would be seeking to do is to apply a rate of excise onto vapes, sufficient that we didn’t force people to the black market because of the increased expense, but at the same time to generate the kind of revenue that we need to make sure that we have the funds for enforcement and also a public awareness campaign, not just to tell Australians that vaping isn’t good for you, but actually it isn't very cool -Which is what is the success of our anti-smoking campaigns [inaudible]. So, we would seek to get the funding via this means to be able to put those programs in place.
Journalist: So, how much would a vape cost to be able to not push someone towards the black market but be able to afford it in stores?
Senator Ruston: Well, obviously we will be releasing our costings on the whole model in due course under normal processes. But we will be seeking to look at international experience, as to what's going on in international markets, about how they are attracting excises, taxation in relation to vaping. So, we would seek to come up with a consistent model looking at what’s happening in jurisdictions elsewhere.
Journalist: What is happening in the international market? Where are we looking to?
Senator Ruston: Most of the international comparisons are countries that we would normally compare ourselves with. New Zealand, the UK, US, most of Europe all have a model of excise application that is – Most of them are applied as a per millilitre excise on e-liquid, which is something that we certainly are considering. As I said, international comparisons will have a very big role in our decision making.
Journalist: Why allow flavouring in vapes? Flavouring was banned from cigarettes, we can’t have flavoured cigarettes at the moment. Why allow flavourings in vapes? Surely this is just a tactic to attract more younger people to access vapes?
Senator Ruston: Not at all. As I said, the big issue here is making sure that we stamp out the black market that’s predatory against children. We do not want to see policies of the federal government force children to actually engage with the black market and with organised crime that is behind the black market. And that is why we believe that a regulated model that has got the controls in place to be able to stop the black market from emerging, stop pushing people to the black market, is the right way to go to protect children. But we also recognise that adult Australians can make choices, they make choices around cigarettes, they make choices around other things that they wish to do. And so, we are announcing our policy that would make sure we have a regulated model that first and foremost is targeted to stamping out the black market and protecting Australia’s children.
Journalist: Would the age limit for purchases be 18?
Senator Ruston: Well, that is the age limit for tobacco at the moment and what I said - What we want to do is to make sure that we are consistent in our approach to these two products. It seems quite odd that we have such incredible inconsistency about how we handle tobacco as opposed to how we handle vapes. We're seeking for consistency.
Journalist: On Assange, the news has come through that he has been released from London, he is on his way back to this side of the world. Is that a welcome development to see him finally out of jail and appears to be accepting a plea deal?
Senator Paterson: Yeah, look throughout this very long saga, the Coalition has been very clear and consistent. We think the UK and US justice systems should be respected and we welcome the fact that Mr. Assange’s guilty plea has allowed him for to be released early.
Journalist: Do you think he has experienced enough punishment, being kept in jail for this many years, the Embassy for a period before that? Is that just punishment for the crimes?
Senator Paterson: Well, I don't know the terms of the plea deal. That will obviously come out over the next hours or days. As I said, we welcome that this saga has been brought to an end after a very long period of time. We welcome the guilty plea, which has allowed this deal to be reached. Obviously, it’s to the satisfaction of the US justice system if they are agreeing, in exchange for his guilty plea, that he will be released and allowed to return to Australia.
Journalist: What are your feelings or thoughts on a convicted felon then being released into Australia? Does the Coalition have a stance on what happens next when he gets to Australia?
Senator Paterson: Well, Mr Assange is an Australian citizen and he has a right to return to our country even after being convicted of a crime, and it'd be a matter for law enforcement to consider whether any other crimes have been committed.
Journalist: The Greens are now saying that they will oppose Sam Mostyn’s pay rise. Is the Coalition considering the same?
Senator Paterson: We will make our announcement on a position in relation to that bill in the usual way shortly.
Journalist: Can I just ask a question on nuclear quickly. The Prime Minister told caucus this morning that the Coalition's plan is going to wreck the future. Are we getting away from ourselves here?
Senator James Paterson: It’s as though the Prime Minister has never left the country. although we know he does very often on his plane. I mean, has he ever been to France, did it wreck their future? Has he ever been to the United Kingdom, did it wreck their future? Has he ever been to Canada, did it wreck their future? I mean, what an absurd thing to say. This is a technology which has been safely and widely used all around the world to help reduce emissions and provide reliable, baseload, affordable energy, and we think the same should happen for Australia.
Thanks, everyone.
ENDS
