October 9, 2023
RAY HADLEY: Senator James Paterson is the Shadow Minister of Home Affairs and Cyber Security and Liberal Senator for Victoria. I've spoken to Senator Paterson before. He's had a fair bit to say about what's occurred over the past 48 hours. He's on the line. Senator, good morning to you.
JAMES PATERSON: Good morning Ray.
HADLEY: Now, there is provision, as I've pointed out early in my discussions with Alex Rivkin, the co-CEO of the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, for the government to do something about what was said last night by Sheikh Ibrahim Dadoun. Whether they've got the courage to do it is entirely different matter.
PATERSON: Well, I think well before this comes to a matter of the law, this is a matter for the Australian Muslim community to stand up to and utterly reject. How could someone born and raised in Australia view those images from Israel overnight, which included young children and women being shot in the streets, being abducted, being assaulted? This is the greatest loss of Jewish life on a single day since the end of the Holocaust. How could an Australian view that and think it is something worthy of celebration? Now that's a person who, in my judgement should not be welcomed at at a mosque, should not be welcomed as a community leader, should not be welcomed as a preacher. And I think it is important that Australian Muslims say this man does not speak for us because I'm sure there are many Muslim Australians who are just as disgusted as we are viewing those videos this morning.
HADLEY: But you see the problem here, Senator, and I'm talking to Senator James Paterson from the Liberal Party. The problem here is there are people in mainstream politics who feel the same way, like Senator Jordon Steele-john, who said the conflict is escalating. Conflict cannot be ignored. For there to be peace, there must be an end to the state of Israel's illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories. Now you will know there are people on the other side of your political spectrum from the Labor Party who feel very
strongly about this as well. They are pro-Palestine. They ready Israel. I mean, so it's not just the rantings of one sheikh. It permeates through mainstream politics in Australia.
PATERSON: Right. There's absolutely nothing which justifies what we have seen in Israel. Whatever your views are on the conflict between Israel and Palestine. Nothing justifies the targeting of innocent civilians in the way it was yesterday. We believe there are 260 innocent people who were at a music festival yesterday who were killed. There are images of bodies being piled up and there are reports that young women were raped by the side of their friends who had been killed at a music festival by these Hamas terrorists. No Australian of any political persuasions should endorse that whatever their views are on the borders between Israel and a future state of Palestine. It simply unacceptable and it should be condemned by every political leader in this country.
HADLEY: Mark Dreyfus is the Attorney-General from his Department, the Federal Attorney-General. It's an offence to counsel, promote, encourage or urge the doing of a terrorist Act or the commission of a terrorism offence where the person intentionally engages in the conduct and is recklessly as to whether another person will engage in a terrorist act or commit a terrorist offence if found guilty of advocating terrorism. And that's what the Sheikh was doing last night at Lakemba. A person could face up to five years in jail and I'd ask the question again, and I understand what you're talking about. Your main concern at the moment is protection of innocent young women and young men who have no axe to grind in any of this. But in the meantime, while the Prime Minister talks tough, will his Attorney-General, be tough.
PATERSON: To be fair to the Attorney-General, he doesn't make a decision to individually prosecute someone. That's something that's done by our federal prosecutors, independent from politicians, as it should be. But there's another very important message I want to send to people tonight, particularly in Sydney, because there is going to be a pro-Palestine rally in Sydney tonight. It's very important that people understand that both Hamas and Hezbollah are now listed as terrorist organisations in their entirety, and it is also a crime under the Federal Criminal Code to associate with these organisations. So there should not be at these rallies tonight, whatever your views about this issue any Hamas paraphernalia, any Hezbollah paraphernalia and flags. Providing material assistance to those organisations, whether that be financial or recruitment or incitement, is a breach of that law and there are very serious criminal penalties applied and I would expect that they would be enforced.
HADLEY: Now the police have come back about what happened last night and they got resources to Lakemba, they say the attendees complied with all police directions. No security issues were raised with no arrests being made. So you're talking about a rally tonight. Are you in Sydney again in the same area?
PATERSON: No, I believe it's at the Sydney Town Hall. It's been advertised on social media and people are being encouraged to attend. And you do have a right as an Australian citizen to protest peacefully for whatever cause you believe in. But you should not associate yourself in any way, shape or form with a terrorist organisation or provide any support to a terrorist organisation. That would be crossing a very important legal threshold of which there must be very serious penalties.
HADLEY: Alright, Town hall tonight in Sydney wouldn't be the place to be, particularly if the chorus is being led by someone like Sheikh Ibrahim today. I appreciate your time, Senator. Thanks very much.
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