January 20, 2025
CHENG LEI: Joining me now is Shadow Home Affairs and Cyber Security Minister James Paterson. Hi there, James. Good to talk to you as always. So why do you think mandatory minimum jail terms will help reduce these acts of anti-Semitic attacks?
JAMES PATERSON: It's great to be with you Lei. I think it's very clear that the perpetrators behind these offences, behind these attacks, whether it's the firebombing of cars and the graffitiing of cars and homes in Sydney or whether it's the firebombing of the Adass Israel synagogue in Melbourne or other offences, I think it's very clear that these perpetrators do not fear the consequences of their behaviour. They either believe that the law won't be enforced or if the law is enforced, that they will just get a slap on the wrist. And so it's clear that we need to send a very strong message to them that there are, in fact, consequences for their behaviour, or at least there will be consequences for their behaviour if there is a Dutton Coalition government in Canberra after the next election. Unfortunately, under the Albanese Labor government, they are getting away with these crimes; they are behaving with impunity, and we need an urgent change of direction. Otherwise, this is going to get worse.
CHENG: Last week, I was speaking to someone from a Palestinian advocacy group, and he says that politicians don't talk equally when it comes to these acts of violence. And he says there are acts of anti-Palestinian violence. Do you agree?
PATERSON: Yes, there have been some instances of targeting of Muslim Australians, and that is completely and totally unacceptable. It is morally abhorrent and it is against the law. But one of the reasons why we talk about anti-Semitism more often than we talk about violence against Australian Muslims is because it is far more prevalent. It's far more prolific. Thank god, we have not seen any places of worship important to Muslim Australians firebombed as we have seen a synagogue. Thank god, we have not seen any cars set alight in Muslim neighbourhoods targeting Muslim Australians. And if that were to
happen and we hope it does not, I assure you that I and the Coalition will condemn that as loudly and as vigorously as we are condemning the violence against the Australian Jewish community. I think we should not be drawing a parallel here where it's not warranted. It's far more prolific against the Jewish community, which is a far smaller community and it's a far more serious problem and that's why it has the attention it deserves.
CHENG: Alex Ryvchin, who is a Jewish community leader, last week said that he thinks what's happening in the Middle East is actually just a mask for the anti-Semitic hatred that we're seeing play out on our streets. What are your thoughts on that?
PATERSON: I think he's right. I think there are anti-Semites in our community, sadly, and they are using the excuse of events overseas to target the Australian Jewish community. No Australian Jew is responsible for the difficult choices that the state of Israel has to make when it is defending itself against a genocidal terrorist organisation in Hamas and trying to recover the hundreds of hostages kidnapped by Hamas on the 7th of October. And yet it is the Australian Jewish community which is being held responsible for that. It is very clear that this is targeting of Jews because of the graffiti and what is said on it, because of the use of swastikas and other offensive symbols. And that's the reason why we think there should be a mandatory minimum sentence for those offences too. If you display publicly a swastika or a symbol of Nazi Germany, if you display publicly the symbol of a listed terrorist organisation, we think you should go behind bars for 12 months because too much of that has happened in our country over the last 15 months. Too much of it has gone unpunished and it is striking fear in the hearts of the Australian Jewish community and other Australians, and they don't deserve to live under that fear.
CHENG: We've been talking a lot about the TikTok ban in the U.S.. What do you think of Chinese social media platforms impact on Australian society are.
PATERSON: Well, it is critical that the Albanese government work hand in glove with the incoming Trump administration on a solution to this problem because it faces both our societies. It's been very well documented now that TikTok is used as a tool of the Chinese Communist Party, both to suppress content critical of the CCP and to promote narratives that are favourable to the CCP. It's also used to harvest the data on Australians and Americans. And the United States Congress has passed a law overwhelmingly and bipartisanly. The Supreme Court of the United States has upheld that law 8 to 0. And the Trump administration is now charged with implementing that law. And it's clear that President Trump wants to do a deal that makes TikTok safe for Americans so that Americans can continue to use TikTok without being spied on by the Chinese government. Now, if Australia doesn't also take our own action, then we will miss out on that safer version of TikTok. I want Australians to continue to be able to use TikTok, but I don't want them to be able to be spied upon by the Chinese government or anybody else. And I don't want them to be the recipient of propaganda on behalf of an authoritarian state. So I really hope that while Penny Wong is in Washington DC, that she takes opportunity to discuss this with the incoming Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, who's been a strong proponent of this legislation and this action for some time.
CHENG: We've also seen a lot of TikTok refugees migrate to other Chinese apps. Does that kind of defeat the purpose?
PATERSON: That's been very interesting to watch over the last couple of days. As like you, I'm sure watching the interaction between Chinese citizens on those even more heavily censored platforms than TikTok interact with Americans and others, and Americans learning the very strict restrictions that will apply to them if they try and operate on a platform that's accessible in China. Because, of course, the difference here is that TikTok itself is banned in China. The Chinese government has banned TikTok operating in China, and has a sister app called Douyin, which operates in China under different conditions. Look, I think it is critically important that we address this holistically. This is a problem not just with TikTok. There are a whole other range of apps that can be influenced by authoritarian powers. Even Western headquartered social media platforms have been victim of foreign interference plots. And I led a Senate inquiry that made a range of recommendations to protect Australians from that foreign interference. Unfortunately, the Albanese government has not taken up any of those recommendations, despite the fact that it was a bipartisan report.
CHENG: Thank you so much for coming on the show today. Talk to you soon.
ENDS
