December 6, 2024
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LAURA JAYES: I want to bring in James Paterson now. He's the shadow home affairs minister. We just heard him speak with a number of members of the Jewish community in a big show of bipartisan support. James, thank you for your time. We watched that media conference in full. And what was clear is that there are members of the community that are very upset with the Albanese government, but also authorities because they feel like they haven't been protected.
JAMES PATERSON: That's right, Laura. And I think it's reasonable fear. I think it's reasonable concerns. I think it's understandable why they feel that way. I think many in the community rightly feel that they've been let down both by governments and in some instances by police because behaviour has been tolerated in this country over the last year that none of us ever thought we should have had. You know, Peter Dutton and I have been saying for more than a year, we want two things from the government. We want moral clarity about the crisis of anti-Semitism and the cancer that it poses for our society and we want the law to be enforced. And the Albanese government and also the Allan government here in Victoria have failed to deliver on either of those things. They've had moral equivocation when it comes to anti-Semitism. They've not been out to condemn it in isolation or with clarity. And they've failed to ensure that police enforce the law. And that is why we are seeing more and more tension, more and more violence, more and more extremism. And unfortunately, what happened behind me at Adass synagogue is what many in the community expected to happen and unfortunately, their fears have been realised.
JAYES: It seems like there are elements within the government, also elements perhaps within authorities, police that feel paralyzed. There is almost like this paralysis to try and manage both aspects of community anger here. But in all of that, James, do you think there has been an almost overcorrection or an element of being too cautious?
PATERSON: I think there has been weakness. I think there has been impotence. I think there has been caution. I think that the government has been trying to balance its political interests against the national interest, and they've failed to call out the extremism we've seen in our country. And that has emboldened extremists even more than they otherwise would have been. And I think police have had an attitude that their job is to keep the peace. And they've got a very difficult job to do. And I strongly support front line workers, they are good people trying to do difficult jobs.
JAYES: It is part of their job, isn't it? I listened carefully to your answer there as well, James, when you were asked by a journalist and perhaps a member of the community there about, you know, whether this incident should have been declared terrorism or not. Now, the detective inspector said that police are doing their absolute best. He wanted to take every question there. He wanted to allay the concerns. He said that what has happened overnight is absolutely not good enough. And you also are supportive of police because they do have to run investigations and they do need to keep open minds, don't they? To make sure that if this does get to court, it's not tainted at the very least.
PATERSON: Of course, Laura and everyone supports police to do the job they have to do. And it would not be helpful for a politician like me to prematurely declare what this event was or wasn't, although I can understand why the Jewish community is pretty clear about what's happened here. My criticism is not about the police right here, right now who are investigating this. I'm sure they will do a diligent job, I am sure they will throw all their resources behind this. I'm sure they want to catch these people and have consequences. My criticism is the tolerance we have seen at the protests in our country over the last 12 months - when you see people parading a Hezbollah flag or a Hamas flag on our streets and no action is taken, even though it is against the law, I think that's a problem. I think it's a serious problem. And I think that has got worse. And I don't understand why the Attorney-General, Mark Dreyfus, why the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, hasn't made it clear to the Federal Police who are responsible for enforcing those hate symbols laws that they expect to see arrests made, that they expect to see charges laid, that they expect to see convictions sought and hopefully granted by courts so that there are consequences for this extreme behavior so that a message is sent that we don't tolerate this in Australia.
JAYES: Yeah, it's really difficult. Well, it shouldn't be so difficult. But when it comes to allowing protests, I mean, we're a free country. We're a democratic society. The right to protest is, you know, a central tenet of that democracy as well. And you're the party of free speech, too. So where is the line? Where are you saying the line is? The rolling protests absolutely aren't acceptable. But how do you draw that line?
PATERSON: Laura I think it's very easy to draw the line, protest as much as you like, about your sincere and genuinely held concerns about conflicts overseas. But do so peacefully. Don't praise terrorist organisations. Don't bring symbols of terrorist organisations to rallies. Please don't protest outside synagogues or other places of worship. Leave the community to worship in peace and then there are no problems. Then it will be tolerated. Then we can have that freedom in this country. But those lines have been crossed. They've been crossed repeatedly and there have been no consequences. And so no one can stand here today and say this is a shock, this is a surprise, that we didn't expect to see this. We all feared that we would see this. Our worst fears appear to have been realised right behind me. And the worst part of this Laura is there's no reason to expect that it will stop here. There could be more acts like this. And the next time someone could be hurt or even killed. It is a miracle - there were people inside this Shule last night when this alleged act of arson took place. One of them is in hospital right now. It's a miracle no one died in this incident. It is a very serious incident. But the next one could be even worse.
JAYES: And let's hope that does not happen. James, you would have seen the statement from Anthony Albanese this morning. We will hear from him later today. It was very strongly worded. It was condemned in the strongest possible terms. Is that enough from the Prime Minister? What do you want to hear? And whatever happens next, needs to be bipartisan, like what we saw on display with you and Josh Burns and everyone else there. We need that at a higher level, don't we?
PATERSON: There was nothing to disagree with Laura in the Prime Minister's statement except that it's a statement he should have made 12 months ago. It's a statement he could have made at any point in the last year, and it shouldn't have taken an incident that was this serious for him to say what he has said. And, of course, words are welcome, but they are not enough. We need action and the community is demanding action. And we would much prefer that this issue was bipartisan. Support for Israel has traditionally been bipartisan. Support for the Jewish community has been traditionally bipartisan. There are other prime ministers of the Labor persuasion who I have many criticisms of, Julia Gillard and Bob Hawke included, but they stood shoulder to shoulder with Israel and the Jewish community. It is this government that has walked away from bipartisanship. It is this government which has abandoned Israel. It is this government which has betrayed the Jewish community and you don't need to take my word for it. That's how the community and many of its leaders feel and what they have said over the last year. And they've been crying out for action from this government. And the only conclusion that we are left to draw is that the government values its political interests more than the national interest. That it is more concerned about holding seats in the inner city against the Greens and in western Sydney against the Muslim Votes Matters movement and others, than it is about standing against the scourge of anti-Semitism, that it is about standing with our friends and allies like Israel.
JAYES: Do you really think it's just about sandbagging seats?
PATERSON: I would like to draw a more charitable conclusion, Laura, but I really think this one is staring us in the face, and I think it's really hard to deny. It is very clear the Labor Party is in deep existential fear about losing those heartland seats in western Sydney. They saw one fall to Dai Le at the last election, so they know it's possible. They are very influenced by it. Their constituents have very strong views on foreign conflicts and of course the Greens are an ever present threat to them in inner city seats, like Wills here in Melbourne and others. And it seems very clear to me that any other Labor government at any other time like this would have taken a stronger stance on anti-Semitism, would have recognised that for the cancer that it is would have stood shoulder to shoulder with Israel at the United Nations and with our other allies, our closest allies like the United States. But they have not done so. And I think it's clear that politics is driving this. Bob Carr, the former Labor Foreign Minister, has been very naked about this. He said that the Labor Party needs to recognise Palestine before the next election. He didn't say we need to recognise Palestine once the peace process is concluded. He didn't say we recognise Palestine once the hostages are free. He said it needs to be done by the election. It is politics which is driving this.
JAYES: But that's almost to my point, isn't it? Bob Carr has long held those views. This is not new from him about sandbagging green seats. I mean, that's not strategic from Bob Carr.
PATERSON: No, but I think he has a greater voice and a greater influence over this government than he has over previous ones. I think he has great influence over the Labor Party. He boasts about his access to Penny Wong and to the Prime Minister and the influence that he has on them. And I think any other self-respecting Labor government would have said thanks, but no thanks for your advice on that. We'll be standing with our allies, will be standing with our friends, and we'll be standing up for the principles that Australia has consistently defended at the United Nations and elsewhere. We have never thought it was a good idea to prematurely recognise a Palestinian state prior to the negotiation of a peace process. Ever since the second Intifada we have voted against those motions, or at the very least abstained. And this government can't even bring themselves to do that because it is politics which is driving it.
JAYES: Do you think Anthony Albanese is ignoring the likes of Josh Burns, who stood shoulder to shoulder with you today and its very own Jewish Attorney-General in Mark Dreyfus?
PATERSON: Well, Laura, I'm not in the Labor caucus and I'm not in the Labor Cabinet. But it does sound like the Prime Minister has his own very strong, very long held views on these issues. I mean, let's not forget, this is someone who has previously posted not one, not two, not three, but four selfies with Jeremy Corbyn, the far-left leader of the British Labour Party, who was expelled from the Labour Party for his role in fostering an anti-Semitism crisis in British Labour. This is a Prime Minister who has previously been filmed speaking at pro-Palestinian protests where he vilified Israel. I think he's had long held views on this issue and I think he's now taking the opportunity to put them into practice.
JAYES: But a very strongly worded statement today. Do you think he needed to do that or do you think there's something inauthentic about that?
PATERSON: Look, I think a strong statement is the bare minimum that we should expect after a religious center, after a synagogue behind me, has been set on fire in an alleged act of arson. That's the bare minimum that we should expect from any Prime Minister, Labor or Liberal, left or right. What we should have seen is that strength of statement much earlier and what we should have seen is it being accompanied by action, accompanied by law enforcement, accompanied by consequences. Because I think extremists think they're winning. I think they think they're changing Labor policy. I think they think they are changing Australia's foreign policy. So why would they let up? Why wouldn't they continue? If you show weakness, if you engage in appeasement, then you encourage this behaviour and it will get worse.
JAYES: James, thank you for your time today. Really appreciate it.
PATERSON: Thanks, Laura.
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