February 13, 2024
JAYES: Well, there's a dire warning about the state of Australia's defence force. This, after revelations more men and women are leaving the ADF than joining, potentially leaving Australia vulnerable, that's according to the Daily Telegraph. The military is failing to meet targets that would see ranks swelled levels last seen since the Vietnam War. There are claims of stockpiles of weapons and munitions are so low that we wouldn't last more than one week of conflict.
CLIP [SENATOR LAMBIE]: We are an island nation, so not to have missiles all fitted out through that top end there, right across. I'll tell you what it’s absolutely nuts. It's like these guys in Canberra, and don't just blame the military for this and the procurement side, it's also the ministers that we've had in the past. They haven't been able to get the job done.
JAYES: Well, joining me now is the shadow Home Affairs and Cyber Security Minister, James Paterson. A little tiny bit outside your direct ministerial responsibilities. But surely Jacqui Lambie is not wrong here?
PATERSON: No, she's not wrong, it's a dire state of affairs and it reflects very poorly on this government and the very big game it's been talking about defence for more than two years now. We are nearly a year on from the DSR being released, and as yet today, we don't have a single extra dollar of funding for defence to meet the very critical need identified in the DSR. Richard Marles, every time he goes to the expenditure review committee of cabinet gets rolled by Penny Wong, Jim Chalmers and Katy Gallagher and is the weakest deputy prime minister and defence minister in memory. Because at the most dangerous strategic moment in Australia's history, he can't come up with a single extra dollar to solve these very serious recruitment issues, to get the capability our soldiers, airmen and sailors need, and to get the munitions that they need. Because if you've got the platforms but you don't have the personnel or the munitions, they're not much good in a conflict.
JAYES: But James, is it all down to money? Is that why men and women are leaving the ADF?
PATERSON: There's a range of complex problems here Laura there's no doubt about that. But money would help, there's no doubt about that as well. We need to remunerate our soldiers, sailors and airmen appropriately. We need to have great recruiting campaigns to get them in. And we need to have a strong sense of purpose, which comes from political leadership about why you would want to sign up to help defend our country in a period of great strategic peril. That is an inspiring mission and message that has inspired previous generations to sign up in great numbers. And if the Albanese government wants to deliver on the plan put in place by the previous government to grow our defence forces, to increase the number of personnel, then they need to get cracking. And it's not going to happen with business as usual policies or business as usual funding, but that's what they seem to be content with.
JAYES: The previous government, I need to point out, did drag its feet on calling a royal commission into veterans' suicide. There's been a lot of reporting about the department, both the Veterans' Department, the Defence Department and their treatment of soldiers once they do return. Do you think that's got a lot to do with it?
PATERSON: Well, you can certainly say, Laura, perhaps we should have called the Royal Commission into veterans' suicide earlier, but we did call the Royal Commission into veterans' suicide, it is happening I think it's important. And more important than calling it is heeding the lessons that will come out of it and implementing them to make sure that pay and conditions and the treatment of people while they're serving our country are adequate, and support them to serve their country at our time of need. So that young Australians think that this is a great option for them, there's no doubt about that, and that now falls on this government's watch. And, you know, for the sake of the nation, I hope they get it right. Based on their performance so far, I've got real doubts that they're going to.
JAYES: Sure, I just wonder about the damage done from the previous years in the way, particularly returned soldiers were treated after they came home from Afghanistan. There's a bit of a PR problem there to put it put it lightly, right?
PATERSON: Well Laura, any veteran of Korea or Vietnam or other conflicts will tell you they weren't wrapped about the treatment they got when they came home either. I think this is a long-term problem for our country about valuing the service of people in uniform, and we need to do better, there's no question about that. We need to treat them better while they're in the service and look after them when they come home. And we need to help them find the pathways they want when they finish their time and service and want to go on to do other things in life. But hopefully help them maintain that connection to defence for the rest of their lives, whether that's as a reserve member or in other capacities, because they have great contributions to make across our society and economy.
JAYES: They certainly do. If I could just quickly ask you about two other issues. The front page of The Australian newspaper today and something that you have been talking about, I know, and this is detainees, with quite serious criminal histories not yet being re-detained. Is the government's hands really tied here?
PATERSON: Not at all, Laura. They're just dragging their feet and not putting the priority and the resources behind this issue to make sure that the community is safe. It's been more than two months now since the parliament rushed through legislation before Christmas to get these dangerous criminals off the streets. And the Albanese government has not made one single application under the preventative detention scheme to get these hardened criminals off the street, and in the meantime they are reoffending. We know that at least 18 have been arrested under state and federal laws, although we don't know whether they're in custody or not. I asked that to Home Affairs and Border Force last night, they couldn't tell me. And we know of at least seven who breached their visa conditions, and again Border Force and Home Affairs couldn't tell me where they are. And so there is a real risk that many of them are out in the community. They've already reoffended once; they're already offended the first time which put them in custody and the Albanese government's doing nothing to get them off the streets. I mean, it really is an unconscionable, shocking performance from the Minister for Home Affairs and the Minister for Immigration and the Prime Minister seems completely detached from it, happy to let this just, trickle on and no decisive action be taken to protect the community.
JAYES: Yeah, we really need an answer there from the government on that one. Finally, perhaps ending on a note of bipartisanship and that is the doxxing laws. This is after the doxxing of 600 Jewish creatives just last week. Are you on board with that?
PATERSON: Completely on board, Laura. It's critically important that the government does take up this suggestion from the crossbench and my Liberal colleague Julian Leeser, because it shouldn't need to be said in this day and age that it's not a good idea or safe thing to do to assemble lists of Jews, their photographs, their places of employment, their social media and to publish it on the internet. If we need laws to stop people doing that, then we should. Of course, press freedom and other considerations are important, but that I think can be addressed in adequate drafting to make sure that's not compromised.
JAYES: Okay. It looks like that might happen this week then.
PATERSON: Well, it should happen as soon as possible. I don't want any further delays and any further people exposed to the danger we saw last week.
JAYES: James always good to see you, thanks so much.
PATERSON: Thanks Laura.
ENDS
