February 25, 2024
Andrew Clennell: Listening to my interview with Richard Marles was the Shadow Home Affairs Minister James Paterson, who's in Melbourne. James Paterson, thanks for your time this morning. You heard the Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister say there that there are problems within the culture of senior Defence leadership; what do you make of that?
Senator James Paterson: Well, I think leadership starts from the top and Richard Marles has been a weak Deputy Prime Minister and a weak Defence Minister. The extra funding that was announced this week for the surface fleet, of only $1.7billion over four years, is the first dollars that Richard Marles has been able to get out of the expenditure review committee in two years, following a defence strategic review which said that our strategic circumstances are the worst they've been since the end of World War II. The great problem with this government when it comes to defence is a total lack of urgency, a total failure to appreciate just how serious our circumstances are and the response that that requires. And this is just what we've come to expect from Labor in office when it comes to defence. You remember the last time they left office they left defence spending at 1.38% of GDP, the lowest level since the 1930s, and the previous Coalition government had to rebuild that back up to 2%. So unfortunately, when it comes to Richard Marles…
Clennell: So he would say Mr. Paterson, he would say we're taking it from 2.1% to2.4% of GDP. Now that's a fair point, isn't it?
Paterson: I'll believe that when I see it, Andrew, because Labor often promises a good game when it comes to defence but fails to deliver. How can you say seriously, if these are the most dire circumstances since the end of World War II, that only $1.7 billion over the next four years is going to be enough? I'm not paying Richard Marles on what he says he's going to do in the 2030s and2040s. We have an urgent task right now in the early 2020s and for some of these new capabilities which he's ordered not to arrive unless this government serves 30 years in office is just ridiculous when the task is so urgent now. I mean, we could have conflict in our own region in the next five years, and you don't have to take my word for it. That's what Angus Campbell says. That's what Kevin Rudd says. That's what a whole range of people say. And yet we are just meandering along at a leisurely pace, like business as usual policies are going to be enough.
Clennell: Alright, well what about this, what he said about the problems with the culture of senior leadership in defence? I mean, that seems pretty extraordinary from a Minister, doesn't it?
Paterson: Well it seems like a public vote of no confidence in his own department and the military leadership of our defence forces, and that's a deeply disturbing thing. I mean, this Minister is responsible for extending the term of the Secretary of the Department. This minister is responsible for extending the term of the CDF. If he doesn't have confidence in them, he shouldn't have done so. If he does have confidence in them, he shouldn't publicly undermine them by saying that.
Clennell: Let's talk about his trip to Indonesia. Do you concede that's apositive move after an asylum boat came on our shores, that that was discussed?
Paterson: Absolutely. It is very important that we work hand in glove with the Indonesians, who are our most important partner when it comes to combating the people smuggling trade. It was thanks to their help and assistance that the Abbott government first was able to stop the boats and get that horrible trade under control and stop it. Unfortunately, it does look like it's been revived on this government. We've had at least 12, possibly 13 boats arrive on this government's watch. 300 people have attempted to make the journey, and two boats have broken all the way through to the mainland and returned without being detected, which is a shocking failure and no surprise when maritime surveillance is down 20% in terms of the aerial surveillance and 12% in terms of the on-water surveillance.
Clennell: Alright, well he made some interesting comments there too about claiming they were spending more than you did in government - the Coalition -even after I'd pointed out to him the budget papers showed it was tapering down.
Paterson: I thought that was just an embarrassing performance from the Deputy Prime Minister. He's obviously not familiar with the budget papers his own government has published, and unaware, as you pointed out to him, that between this year and next year the government's own update to its budget - released this month - shows that the spending on border protection is declining by $190million. The government says they will spend $190 million less next financial year than they're spending this year on borders. Now, if that's not a cut, I don't know what a cut is, and if the Deputy Prime Minister is unaware of that then it shows he is not across the brief, because let's remember, this is as much a defence portfolio issue as it is a Home Affairs issue. Operation Sovereign Borders is a joint mission between defence and Home Affairs, including Border Force, and he seems completely not across the detail.
Clennell: Now, the opposition's been trying to paint this one asylum boat as the government's lost control of our borders. But the occupants were immediately taken to Nauru. So is it that big a deal?
Paterson: I think it is a big deal, Andrew, when two boats in three months make it to the Australian mainland and leave again without being detected. I mean, this is virtually unheard of in the last decade of border policy, and it is a shocking failure of our maritime surveillance operations. You should not be able to get to the Australian mainland, drop people off and return without being detected. And unfortunately, people smugglers are testing this government's resolve, and unfortunately I think they’re finding it's wanting. I mean, the government has sent all sorts of terrible signals when it comes to border protection, chief amongst those was the abolition of temporary protection visas, which was one of the key components of Operation Sovereign Borders. As soon as the Prime Minister sent up that flare, sent that message to people smugglers, they thought, great, we're going to test his resolve, and I think they're going to continue to until the Prime Minister shows some strength and restores Operation Sovereign Borders to its original design under the former government.
Clennell: I wanted to ask now about this Dunkley by-election, which occurs obviously the Saturday in your home state, can the Liberal Party snatch the seat?
Paterson: I think there's been some disingenuous expectation erasing going on; this is a tough by-election for the Liberal Party, a 6.3% swing is a very big swing. And I heard the Deputy Prime Minister say before that that's the average swing in by-elections, but of course what he would know is that the average swing is much less when it's the case of a departing former member who is deceased - as is the case of Peta Murphy - than when a member resigns. I've been on the pre-poll booths in Dunkley. There's no anger towards the government for this by-election, which is obviously understandable. That's not what I experienced in other by-elections where a member has resigned and retired early, where there often is anger at the very existence of the by-election. So it's a big task for the Liberal Party, but I think we are competitive, I think we will get a strong swing, but it would be an extraordinary thing to get a swing of more than 6.3% and win the seat.
Clennell: Just finally, can I get a reaction to this education review that Jason Clare is releasing today? It seems the government has walked away from an earlier idea to impose an international student levy on universities. What do you make of that? They also want universities to contribute to a future fund.
Paterson: Our Shadow Minister for Education Sarah Henderson will have a more comprehensive response later, but my initial reaction is this is a very ambitious plan. It is a very long wish list and a very expensive wish list, and I think it's very telling that Jason Clare, on releasing this report today, hasn't been able to commit to a single idea in the proposal and has said it'll take the government several months before they respond to that. That is a pattern of behaviour in this government whether it's defence or Home Affairs or now or education, they commission dozens and dozens reports, they sit on them for months, they finally release them, and then they say they’ll respond to that in a few months time. We saw that with a surface fleet review, and that's putting us in all sorts of trouble when it comes to our national security. I hope they promptly respond to this one.
Clennell: James Paterson, Shadow Home Affairs Minister, thank you.
ENDS
