February 3, 2025
PETA CREDLIN: All right, now to Australia's ongoing epidemic of antisemitism and the national security implications. Following revelations of last week's foiled mass casualty event, we know the investigation is still ongoing. The Daily Telegraph broke the story, of course. New South Wales Premier Chris means he's across what's going on. The same couldn't, though, be said for the Prime Minister. For more on this, I'm joined now by the Shadow Minister for Home Affairs, James Paterson. Senator, I know you've got to step into a Shadow Cabinet meeting in a moment, so I am grateful for your time. We've talked a lot about the scourge of antisemitism. I want to put that to one side, tonight I want to focus on the national security apparatus. It's supposed to be keeping us safe, James. And the fact the Prime Minister's either not being well served by it or he doesn't want to be briefed by it. He doesn't want to know what's happening on his watch. You know, he's asleep at the wheel. Which is it?
JAMES PATERSON: That's exactly right, Peta. And the Prime Minister only has himself to blame here because he actually started demolishing the national security policy architecture that was put in place by the previous government, which kept Australians safe. He demolished the Home Affairs portfolio by removing key operational security agencies like the Federal Police and AUSTRAC, the financial crimes regulator, the Criminal Intelligence Commission, and then ultimately also ASIO, out of the Home Affairs portfolio into the Attorney-General's portfolio, which has caused massive confusion and disorganisation and disarray. And it's no wonder that it's not in top shape and not working seamlessly together. But it really is extraordinary, if it is true, that no one told the Prime Minister or the Attorney-General or the Home Affairs Minister about a foiled mass casualty terrorist attack. That shows that something is fundamentally wrong on this government's watch.
CREDLIN: That's if you believe him, James. I find that is a threshold that is too great to get across, that you've got tens of thousands of intelligence officials and departmental senior bureaucrats in these portfolios in Canberra, and not one of them thought either a call to the Prime Minister's office or a briefing not up through their Ministers and across, was it worth it about an issue of this scale? I get when he says, that if he's asked in a press conference, the PM says, Look, I'm not going to discuss the intricacies of security briefings. I get that, right. But you show me where John Howard or Tony Abbott or Scott Morrison, even a Kim Beazley, wouldn't have been forthcoming to say. I've got a briefing. Rest assured, Australians. We've got this in hand.
PATERSON: Well, that's exactly right, Peta. And I've spoken to many people who worked in senior national security roles in the bureaucracy and in government over many years. And all of them said it would be inexplicable that the Prime Minister would not be briefed, that probably what would have happened in a routine way is that the Federal Police or ASIO would have briefed their relevant minister first, and that relevant minister would have said, well, we better tell the Prime Minister, we're probably going to need to convene a National Security Committee of Cabinet meeting. And in fact those committee meetings should have been happening anyway on a rolling basis. Given how serious this crisis is, it shouldn't take a bombing of a synagogue or a childcare centre or a roadside caravan bomb to require an NSC meeting. And in those NSC meetings, the Prime Minister should have been grilling the heads of our intelligence and security agencies and our law enforcement agencies, saying where are things up to? What's the full picture? Tell me, what's happening? And if those meetings weren't happening, and if he wasn't asking those questions, then that reflects on his disinterest in national security. And no wonder things have gotten as bad as they have.
CREDLIN: Then it all happened because it was, you know, over the Christmas-New Year period. We know that he said when I think it was your leader asking for a National Cabinet meeting, he said, Well, we're not going to do that. Everyone's on leave. I'm not bringing people back. We know Penny Wong was overseas. She was at the inauguration. We know that Mark Dreyfus, the AG, these are members of the NSC, for people at home. We know that he was away in Israel. Is it the fact that if he hasn't got the ministers around him, G-ing him up to do his job, he's off in a frolic?
PATERSON: There's a couple of problems with that excuse, Peta. One is obviously the Prime Minister's job is a full-time job, and it shouldn't go into hibernation over the summer holidays. The second is we called for a National Cabinet for 14 months. So, presumably, people weren't on leave for 14 months. And the third is even if some people were taking some leave over Christmas and New Year, this caravan was discovered on the 19th of January. The key people should have been well and truly back at work with their feet under the desk by then and on top of this issue. And if they weren't, really, it boggles the mind. I mean, NSC should have met, and the Prime Minister should have made policy decisions on the basis of this incident to surge resources to our security and intelligence agencies, to establish a task force to get to the bottom of this, to reassure the Jewish community and any others who could be targeted and affected by these attacks, that no stone was being left unturned from the highest office of the land to get to the bottom of this. None of that happened. And all of that reflects on him.
CREDLIN: Just before we go, James, I know you have to leave. Online neo-Nazi network. They've been hit with sanctions, as they should. But how can they go after the neo-Nazis? And we still have yet to deport a single hate preacher.
PATERSON: Well, that's exactly right, Peta. We strongly support the sanctions that the government has put in place on these neo-Nazi groups. But truthfully, that's just business as usual of government. That should just happen as a matter of course, it's nothing to be trumpeting or be particularly proud of, particularly when the government has failed to tackle so many other extremists in our community, whether it's Hizb ut-Tahrir or people here on visas inciting violence against their fellow Australians, in fact not Australians, in the case of those visa holders, no consequences have followed. For those people, they haven't been charged, they haven't been arrested, they haven't been deported. And no wonder they have become emboldened. Things have got so out of control on this Prime Minister's watch.
CREDLIN: All right. I don't want to get you in trouble, James Paterson. Thank you.
ENDS
