February 20, 2024
PETA CREDLIN: Joining me now, Shadow Home Affairs Minister, James Paterson. James, thank you for your time. I know you've just come back from the Munich Security Conference. We'll get to some international issues in a moment. But a big debate today about the budget available to Home Affairs to defend our enormous coastline. The opposition picked up on changes with the budget. Clare O'Neil comes out today. She's the minister saying, look, we've got plenty of funds there and you and Peter Dutton, are just playing funny buggers. But we also hear she's putting a bid into the budget committee wanting to put more money in the May budget. So clearly there's something going on here. The Border Force commissioner, Michael Outram, says there's no budget cuts. Everything's okay. But you quietly picked up what the budget papers actually say. And that's very different than what the minister is telling us, isn't it?
JAMES PATERSON: That's right. Peta. On the one hand, we could take what the minister says, but this is a minister who got wrong the funding for her own cyber security strategy on the day she announced it. So we probably won't do that. Or we could take the budget papers as truth. And the budget papers are very clear. And she can go and ask Jim Chalmers about it if she's confused. It shows the funding for this year and then the funding declining for every year for the next four of the forward estimates. And cumulatively, that adds up to $600 million. Labor's argument here is just ignore the budget papers. Don't worry about that. That's not our intention. Well, what is the purpose of budget papers and forward estimates? If it's not to indicate the government's priorities and where it intends to spend money, and if they are going to find this money, well, where's it going to come from? What other programs are going to be cut or what the taxes are going to be increased to fund it here? It's very clear funding for Border Force and border protection falls. And this is a government that's also done other things to undermine our border security, like abolishing temporary protection visas and failing to deliver the maritime surveillance hours that we need, which no surprise, has led to two boats now slipping through.
CREDLIN: This has got to be a link though, doesn't it, James? This reduction in the in the budget, funding for border protection, perhaps in the hope we'd get away with it, no one will notice it, of course we had the boats turn up and then this story appears today clearly a leak from the government, of that the minister's going to go in there and thump the table at the ERC budget rounds, she's going to put more money in the May budget. But this is catch up money. This is them being caught out as these boats are starting up again.
PATERSON: That's right Peta. Michael Outram admitted to me in Senate estimates in October last year that they weren't meeting the maritime surveillance objectives, and the minister has only announced that she will be seeking more money in the upcoming budget today after it hits the media. You know how unusual it is to foreshadow a budget announcement that hasn't even been approved by ERC, let alone considered by ERC yet. This is scrambling and panic from the government because it knows it's in trouble, because it's had two boats on its watch slip past and reach the Australian mainland. That is almost unheard of in the last decade. It is such a rare event. They are almost always intercepted at sea and turned around. But these ones have slipped through. That's happened on this government's watch, and they have to account for it.
CREDLIN: I spoke to David Adler last night from the Jewish Australian lobby about something that we've followed now for many months, and this is this spike in visas from people who identify as having Palestinian citizenship. But you and Claire Chandler actually unearthed this detail last week in Senate estimates, because DFAT has revealed they have granted around 2000 visitor visas, 148 other migration and temporary visas to people who say they've got Palestinian citizenship. Now, what's worrying here for me is we don't have any consular services, Australian consular services in Gaza. Fair enough. But these applications have been approved, some of them in just 24 hours. Now, given also that some of these are online application forms. How confident are we, James Paterson, that the appropriate checks are being done?
PATERSON: I wish I could say I had confidence, but based on the answers that officials from Home Affairs gave me last week in Senate estimates, I can't say that I am. You're right. It's now more than 2000 visas granted to Palestinian residents in a very short period of time. Let's remember, this is a war zone controlled by a terrorist organisation. I don't know how we can be doing adequate checks on the ground of those people. So essentially, we're relying on the documentation they provide online and taking it at face value. And not only did they say that on average these visas are approved in 24 hours, they concede it was possible that in at least one case, a visa was granted in a single hour. Now, how on earth is it possible to do any security checks at all if it is being turned around in just one hour? I'm deeply concerned that, at very least, among these 2000 people will be sympathisers and political supporters of Hamas, which frankly, I think is bad enough and who we wouldn't want in our country, let alone the risk that actually there are people who have direct terrorist associations in that group, which is, of course, a risk when you're dealing with a jurisdiction like this.
CREDLIN: And if a government in Gaza, and it is a government that they elected is a Hamas controlled government. If you want to verify identity, if you want to check any details of bona fides of people, I mean, do you get a piece of paper from Hamas to say who they are or does it come from the Palestinian authorities? And of course, we've got grave concerns, look at the UNRWA funding. Money that moves through the Palestinian authorities is also suspect. So, I mean, where do you get the veracity checks that you need before you allow someone to come to Australia?
PATERSON: There's no comforting answer to that question, Peta. It either is that documents are generated by Hamas, a terrorist organisation, or documents are generated
by the Palestinian Authority, a corrupt organisation which has not governed in Gaza for nearly 20 years and has no authority or presence on the ground. So there is no way you can have assurance on any documents that have been provided or about the identities of these people, let alone their terrorist associations or sympathies. And I think the government has been incredibly reckless by rushing through so many applications in such a short period of time with such little checks and the implications this could have for our safety and security, or our social cohesion are very profound.
CREDLIN: Talk to me about the Munich Security Conference. I am interested in your observations from other people that you caught up with and also, the agenda for the conference. I mean, what are the some of the big concerns that were being raised? But also you were there obviously, when we heard the news about Navalny, Alexei Navalny over the weekend. What was the reaction there from the international community?
PATERSON: The sentiment at the conference was very sober Peta, because of the announcement about Alexei Navalny's death and the fact that his wife Yulia addressed the conference within hours of his death being announced. That was a very somber and sober moment, but also because there was recognition that the Ukraine war is in a very difficult phase, that Ukraine is under great strain and great stress from Russia and its allies, including North Korea and its financial and economic sponsors and supporters, including China. And Russia is now significantly out producing Ukraine and its allies on things like shells for artillery and that is having real battlefield implications, which has led Ukraine, for example, in the last 48 hours to withdraw from Avdiivka, a town which they were fighting very hard to defend for months and months and months. It's very clear that Ukraine needs more support from the Western world, from the European Union, from the United States, from Australia, from other partners. Because if they don't get that support, then they will suffer further losses and Russia will make further gains. And that is not in our interests or in anyone's interests. We need to make sure that Russia is defeated here in Ukraine, and this war doesn't become an even wider one, which is at great risk. The Baltic states and Poland could very easily be next. And that would, of course, bring NATO into the conflict in a much more direct way, which I don't think anyone should welcome.
CREDLIN: James, just before we go, in news in the papers this morning that I read, one of the 149 foreign criminals, released in Sydney, has been charged with a failure to report back to Home Affairs as is required. So he fronts a magistrate. But they have then released him on bail. Now, the problem is he's not turning up and reporting in when he should. Why does he get bail?
PATERSON: I'm really concerned about this Peta and I challenged the Australian Federal Police on this last week at estimates, and they weren't able to answer my question. I said, what position is the AFP taking in court on whether or not these people should be granted bail after they breach their visa conditions? They weren't able to answer that question. Of course the position should be no bail if you're breaching your visa conditions. Because let's remember, these are people who had their visas taken away and were incarcerated because of other crimes they're already accused of and have now gone and breached their bail again. So it's at least two strikes, if not three in these cases. And they do pose a very real risk to the community. And that is why it is so shocking that the Albanese government has still not applied for one single preventative detention order, the power that the parliament rushed through before Christmas to protect the community. What on earth are they waiting for? How many more crimes need to be committed before they're going to act?
CREDLIN: Shocking. James Paterson, thank you.
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