February 20, 2025
PETER STEFANOVIC: Now to state sponsored murder plots, attempts to steal our defence secrets and a rise of anti-Semitism that frighteningly may not have even peaked yet. That's the grim assessment from the ASIO boss, Mike Burgess, in his annual threat assessment last night. Joining us live is the Shadow Home Affairs Minister, James Paterson, for his response now. James, good morning. We get this every year. None of it gets any better. What are your thoughts on what Mike Burgess had to say overnight?
PATERSON: I agree with you Pete. This was a particularly bleak and sobering security assessment from the Director General, even by the standards of the annual threat assessment. I am, of course, very concerned, as I know many Australians will be, by his disclosure that a handful of nation states have planned and attempted to harm Australian citizens both on our own soil and internationally. I'm also concerned about his forecast of potential foreign interference at the upcoming federal election. And of course, as you say, his observation that antisemitism in this country has not even plateaued, let alone peaked. That will be a very troubling statement to the Jewish community, but one that won't come as much of a surprise to them.
STEFANOVIC: When you bring up nation states and when you hear and read about the nation states, I mean, are they the usual suspects?
PATERSON: There's a pretty clear short list, Pete, of the states that would have an interest and would have the ability to intervene in our democracy. And it is the authoritarian states and those who have interests in our region. I'm not going to name them explicitly. It's not my place to do that if the Director General of Security has chosen not to do so. But I can tell you that the people who are targeted by this and the diaspora communities who are under the thumb of these regimes know exactly what he's talking about.
STEFANOVIC: What should folks look out for in your view?
PATERSON: Well in the context of an election, a nation state will use a couple of different means to try and intervene. They will try and influence diaspora communities, try and sway their votes one way or the other. They'll use state sponsored media to try and direct, you know, political preferences in our country. They'll use social media to try and intervene. In the case of potential violence or targeting of individual citizens that could be obvious to them if they feel like they're being surveilled and watched and they should call the national security hotline and report that and that will find its way to the right people at ASIO and Australian Federal Police.
STEFANOVIC: Okay. One of the agitators is usually China and this comes as three Chinese warships are currently marauding along our coastline. I spoke to the Defence Minister about it earlier. He says the ADF is watching. They haven't broken any international laws yet, but what are your thoughts on what you're seeing?
PATERSON: Well, the Deputy Prime Minister is right, it's not unlawful conduct by the People's Liberation Army Navy, but it is very unusual behaviour. It is not normal to come this far down the east coast of Australia and I think the Prime Minister needs to show some leadership here. I think he should stand up today and explain what he can about what we know about the intentions of the Chinese government here and what the Australian government response is. But we have to be resolute in guarding our own interests and our own sovereignty. And I think he needs to make that clear today.
STEFANOVIC: Well, this all comes off the back of that incident over the South China Sea involving our planes. I mean, what's, you know, got under the bonnet of the Chinese when it comes to us at the moment?
PATERSON: Look, I think some will try and draw a false equivalence between these incidents and say we're in their neighbourhood, they're in our neighbourhood. But there's a couple of very important distinctions here. Both are operating in international waters, and we would not seek to stop the Chinese navy operating in international waters. And the South China Sea, or the Taiwan Straits to the East China Sea are international waters and we have a right to be there just as they have a right to be there. But we're not engaging in unsafe or unprofessional conduct against the PLAN in our region as they have against us. And let's talk about the difference between the waterways. I mean, this is a remote part of the world. It is not a significant international trading route off the east coast of Australia, unlike the South China Sea. And so the plausible reason as to why the PLAN would need to be here is very hard to explain.
STEFANOVIC: And if he tears up, if Marles tears up the contract of the Port of Darwin. He says it's being considered, at the moment, not tearing up, but looking at it. I mean that's going to miff the CCP, no doubt?
PATERSON: Well, I think Richard Marles really needs to explain what he means when he said this is under consideration, because in October 2023, the Albanese government ruled out any changes to the lease of the Port of Darwin. They said that current controls are sufficient and that it was not necessary to vary or cancel the agreement. So if that's changed, they should explain what has changed and why it has changed and what they're now contemplating doing. I've said many times it was a mistake for this lease to have been entered into by the Territory government, it should not have been allowed to happen. The law was changed by the Morrison government to make sure that this could never happen again. And we have to look very closely about whether in this strategic environment it is in our national interest to have a significant strategic asset like that controlled by a company which is linked to a foreign authoritarian government.
STEFANOVIC: Okay. Just a final one here, James, and it relates to Trump's accusations towards Volodymyr Zelenskyy overnight. And it appears that America's alliance system is shifting from Ukraine to Russia here. Is that how you see it?
PATERSON: I think that's overstating it Pete at this stage. President Trump has been clear that he wants to bring that war to an end. And I'm sure everybody, not least the Ukrainians, wants to bring that war to an end. But it's critical it's done so on terms that are acceptable to Ukraine, and shouldn't be imposed on Ukraine. And Australia has a very strong interest in supporting Ukraine and President Zelenskyy in this fight. He's a legitimate, democratically elected leader of Ukraine and he is fighting an unjust, unlawful, unprovoked invasion by Vladimir Putin, who is responsible for initiating this conflict. And the burden falls on Vladimir Putin to stop his invasion, to stop his attack on Ukraine, not on anyone else.
STEFANOVIC: All right. We'll leave it there. James Paterson, good to chat as always. Thank you. We'll chat again soon.
ENDS
