February 29, 2024
PETER STEFANOVIC: That was the deputy Prime Minister on the program in the last hour. Let’s bring in the shadow Home Affairs and the Cyber Security Minister, James Paterson in on this. James, good to see you as always. So you've seen a few of these threat assessments now. What stands out most for you this time?
JAMES PATERSON: Good morning Pete. I have seen some people this morning being shocked by Mike Burgess's revelations, but they really shouldn't be surprised. This is now the third year in a row where he has said that espionage and foreign interference has supplanted terrorism as our principal security concern, and he's previously said that espionage and foreign interference are at record levels, higher than they ever were, even at the height of the Cold War. And I wonder what people thought he meant when he said that? Of course that means politicians are targeted. And of course that means some people have betrayed their country. And it is a very stark reminder of the serious threat that this poses and the seriousness with which we need to take this and the response that was required. It's exactly why the former government legislated the espionage and foreign interference reforms. And why we provided record resources to ASIO to make sure that no one betrays their country again.
STEFANOVIC: That's one of the key lines that have emerged from this speech this morning. I mean, I found it interesting anyway. That a former politician sold out his country. We don't know who. Plus, a Prime Minister had a family member brought into a spy's orbit. This is what Mr. Burgess had said. Do you have any idea who?
PATERSON: Peter, I have a fair idea, but I won't be publicly speculating about that. That wouldn't be appropriate. And in a sense, it doesn't matter. Every politician is a target. The people around us, including our staff and family members and associates, are targets, and we need to approach our work with that in mind. This is a different strategic environment that we're operating in, and naivety about those threats is not healthy. And that's why I really welcome Director General Burgess's speech last night. I think it's important that he's candid as he is with the public about these threats, and we need to respond accordingly.
STEFANOVIC: I was curious about it, I mean, when you don't name, it just reinforces speculation. And I'm thinking, is he talking about the Dastyari days here, or is he talking about something newer or fresher?
PATERSON: Well, again, I shouldn't speculate publicly. All I can point to is that the Director General very pointedly said that the people involved in these activities were lucky that our espionage and foreign interference reforms are not retrospective. That means that the people who are engaging in this conduct prior to 2018.
STEFANOVIC: Are we talking China here James? I mean, Marles tied himself in knots trying not to say a country. They all do. But is this is it China or is it Russia? Who is it?
PATERSON: Well, let me be a bit more direct than the Deputy Prime Minister might be able to, without commenting on the A-team specifically. China is the number one source of our espionage, foreign interference, state backed cyber attacks, and state backed intellectual property theft. And the second place holder on those lists are not even close behind.
STEFANOVIC: Daylight?
PATERSON: Correct.
STEFANOVIC: His other announcement today, Richard Marles here, James, I want to get your thoughts on the ADF is sending six more troops to the Red sea operations. Your thoughts on that number?
PATERSON: Look, it's a welcome increase in our previous modest commitment, but it remains a modest commitment. And still, Australia will have no offensive capability, no strike capability in the region to contribute to our allies and friends. I'm sure they appreciate some more warm bodies in the office together with them when they're doing the targeting and making the decisions to take out these missions. But I think they would welcome much more, actual naval or aerial assets from the Australian Defence Force in the region. And it remains a source of concern and disappointment for the Opposition that we haven't stepped up to this. Our interests here are clear. Shipping costs from Europe to our region have skyrocketed, and all of those costs are passed on to Australian consumers. We want this to get under control as quickly as possible. We want this these Houthi attacks on the Red sea and shipping to be put down as quickly as possible. And the longer that we delay in providing assistance to our allies and friends, the longer that will take.
STEFANOVIC: So is what's not being said here, James, that we just don't have any more than that to spare?
PATERSON: Well, the, Chief of Navy, Mark Hammond, has publicly and repeatedly and clearly said that if the Australian government gave him direction to provide these assets, he would do so and that we are able and capable of doing so. We can only take him at his word if he says Navy is ready, I believe him. And therefore it rests on the government to make a decision. And I think it reflects on the government and their unwillingness to make that decision.
STEFANOVIC: Fair enough. James Paterson, thank you as always.
ENDS
