September 3, 2024
SHARRI MARKSON: Well, let's bring in now Shadow Home Affairs Minister James Paterson, to speak about Mike Burgess finally clarifying his comments on the Gaza visa issue. James, welcome to the program. Does this clear up the matter, do you think from a security perspective?
JAMES PATERSON: Well, no. In fact, in many ways it raises more questions. But all the questions are, as they always should have been, about the Albanese government's handling of this issue, not about our security agencies or about our security agency heads like Mike Burgess, who do an outstanding job. Mike Burgess has now effectively set out a test for the bar that you should need to clear if you want to come to our country. He said you are a risk to the security of Australia if you support Hamas, if you support what they did on the 7th of October, and if you support the annihilation of the State of Israel. Now, can the Prime Minister or the Minister for Home Affairs, Tony Burke, put their hand on their heart and stand up tomorrow and promise that not one of the 3000 tourist visas they granted to Gaza residents includes anyone who supports Hamas? Anyone who supports the 7th October? Or anyone who wants to annihilate Israel? I seriously doubt that with the rushed, risky and reckless process they put in for handing out these tourist visas like confetti.
MARKSON: Exactly. I mean, it might even be hard to find 3000 people from Gaza at the moment who don't support any of the propositions that you just put there. But, James, I remind you, because we've spoken about this before, earlier in the year in February, I've already shown that there's a 21 year old Palestinian, came on a visitor visa from Gaza since October 7th. Now in Melbourne, he has on social media, already liked posts and shared posts that supported the October 7th terror attacks that supported Hamas there were numerous posts, I've shown them on this program. So already people have come in here who do appear to be Hamas supporters based on their social media activity. So what should Tony Burke do now? What happens now if there are people already in Australia as part of the Albanese governments visa program, who are Hamas supporters?
PATERSON: Well, you're right to single that out, Sharri, because Mike Burgess has made clear in his comments today that even liking or retweeting a tweet supporting these incidents is evidence of concern from a security point of view, and would cause that person a problem in seeking to come to Australia. Now, I don't blame Mike Burgess or ASIO for the fact that people like that do appear to have come in under the Albanese government, because we know ASIO can only act when cases are referred to them. And we know from Mike Burgess comments on Insiders that not all cases are being referred to them. Well, this is exactly why, when you're dealing with a terrorist-controlled war zone, that you should be referring all applications to ASIO, that full security vetting should be conducted for anyone leaving those countries or that region. And that's not what this government has done. So we already have 1300 of these people in this country already. There may be a risk among that cohort, but there were further 1700 offshore who could come to Australia at any moment if the Rafah crossing reopens again, as we all hope that it does after a ceasefire agreement that releases the hostages. Now, what is the Albanese government doing about the 1300 who are here? Are they going to review any of them? Will they cancel any of their visas if they're found to support Hamas? And what are they going to do about the 1700 who will try to get here as quickly as possible? Are they going to review any of those to make sure there aren't any Hamas supporters among them? They have not outlined any plan to do so. I have no confidence that they're going to do so.
MARKSON: Well, it's a very difficult position because Tony Burke has come out and said that no one is being sent back to the war zone. He said, no government in its right mind would send anyone back to Gaza. So what does he plan to do with the people? And we've seen figures today that about 700 have applied for a different visa, a bridging visa to extend their stay more permanently in Australia. So these are big questions for the government to answer. And James, you know, Paul Kelly made this point brilliantly in his article in The Australian on the weekend. He said at no stage has any minister from the Albanese government actually come out and said, all right, this is our intake. This is how many people we're bringing in. This is the class of visa. There's been no explanation. And Paul Kelly also pointed out that there are two separate issues here, entry policy and security checks. And there's been this deliberate blurring of the lines by Albanese. What do you think about this?
PATERSON: All really good points Sharri, let's take them in turn. On Paul Kelly's article on the weekend I agree with you. And a very critical point was made by him and also by voices like Dennis Richardson, the former Director-General of ASIO, which is that we have both character provisions, which is a matter for government and the Department of Home Affairs. And security risks, which is a matter for ASIO and Mike Burgess and his team. And the bar to cancel someone's visa on character grounds is considerably lower than to cancel their visa on security grounds. To give you one tangible example, the Albanese government has made it pretty clear that they're not going to approve a visa for Candace Owens, someone from the United States who wants to come to Australia on a speaking tour. Now, I'm not a fan of her. I think she's a dangerous anti-Semite and a conspiracy theorist, but she's not a supporter of Hamas or terrorist organisations. She's just an anti-Semite. And on that grounds alone, they are not going to approve her visa. Are we seriously saying among the 3000 Gaza tourist visas there are no anti-Semites? Have they even asked? Have they even checked? And this goes to the other issues. I mean, how can you possibly be confident when the interviews didn't take place, when the biometric checks weren't done, when they were just handing out tourist visas so quickly? And if Tony Burke is right that none of these people can be returned, why were they given tourist visas in the first place? A condition of a tourist visa is you are only here to visit temporarily. Clearly, none of these people intend to stay here temporarily.
MARKSON: Yeah, so many questions that the government really needs front up. Doesn't look like they're going to do that any time soon. Just before you go, James Paterson, the Foreign Affairs Minister, Penny Wong, has given a foreign policy speech today, but she inserted some domestic politics into it. In fact, it's reported that she has accused the Liberal Party of failing to recognise Jakarta's importance, citing Robert Menzies 1947 criticism of the Chifley Labor government support for Indonesian independence as the very ecstasy of suicide. Do you think this is appropriate from the Foreign Minister?
PATERSON: It's extraordinary and bizarre that the Foreign Minister would think it's appropriate to revive 70 year old comments of a dead Prime minister as a way of attacking Peter Dutton and the Liberal Party today, and to do so in front of invited guests from our region who are our friends. I mean, how does it enhance Australia's national interest to do that? We could all play this game. We could revive Arthur Calwell's comments from a similar era about Asian immigration and use that to attack the Labor Party today. But would that make Australia stronger? Would that enhance our position in a delicately balanced Indo-Pacific? Of course not. And the Foreign Minister, I think, has debased herself today with this partisan attack. She's obviously been inspired by Jim Chalmers. And there's clearly been a message sent out to Labor frontbenchers. Get out there and tear Peter Dutton down, because they have long come to accept that there's no way they're going to build Anthony Albanese up. And if you can't build up your own team, all you can do is take down the other one.
MARKSON: Yeah, there's clearly concern about the momentum that seems to be in Dutton's direction at the moment, judging by the polls. James Paterson, always great to have you on the show. Thank you.
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