August 13, 2024
SHARRI MARKSON: Germany is introducing legislation to deport Hamas supporters. Do you think Australia should be doing the same?
JAMES PATERSON: Well we should absolutely be deporting anyone that we can identify as supporting a terrorist organisation, Sharri. But the good news is we don't need legislation to do it. We've already got that legislation that's been passed by previous parliaments. It includes the character test in the Migration Act that says that people who are a threat to our community can have their visas revoked by the Minister for Home Affairs, and that's an important test for Tony Burke. Will he step up? Will he act? Will he cancel the visas of Hamas supporters, as well as stopping any new ones from coming to our country?
MARKSON: And it doesn't seem like that's happening at the moment, does it? I mean, the comments we heard from the ASIO Director-General, Mike Burgess, on the weekend seemed to be that the government's policy is that it might be fine for some Hamas supporters to come to Australia on these temporary visas.
PATERSON: I'm deeply concerned by the failure of the government to clarify in the last couple of days whether or not they are willing to bring a Hamas supporters into Australia, if they are only rhetorical or political supporters of Hamas. This is a question of government policy. This is a question of migration policy. Tony Burke is responsible for that. If he disagrees that Hamas supporters should not be able to be brought into our country, he should say so. If he agrees that we should stop Hamas supporters coming into our country, he should tell the public what he's doing to make sure that happens. But so far, we've had nothing but silence from the Minister for Home Affairs, and it's not good enough.
MARKSON: Now you and Julian Leeser and other politicians have actually organised a petition to go to Tony Burke on this very topic. Can you tell us what you're calling for?
PATERSON: Look, this is a great initiative by my colleague Julian Leeser and in just the first 24 hours, more than 70 politicians have signed this letter to the Minister for Home Affairs asking him to be upfront and be straight with the Australian people. Is it this government policy that political supporters of Hamas are welcome in this country, and if so, why? And secondly, what is he going to do about existing supporters of Hamas in the community who are here on visas? Will he cancel those visas and will he send them home as the German government has promised to do?
MARKSON: The big political news today, that there's a Muslim candidate running against Tony Burke in his seat of Watson. Do you think his position is now under threat? And do you think his personal fight to hold on to his own seat is influencing Australia's foreign policy and national security?
PATERSON: Look, this appears to be a very serious, independent challenge against Tony Burke. It's something that's been organised well in advance of the next election, with a candidate whose credentials seem, on paper, to be impressive. And I think it will be a very serious political threat to Tony Burke. The problem is that Tony Burke is now going to be forced to choose between his political interests and the national interest. If he wants to appease communities in his seat, he might make one decision. If he wants to protect Australians, he might make a different decision. And frankly, the Prime Minister has placed him in an unenviable position. No minister should be placed in a position where they have to choose between their political interests and the national interest. Frankly, I don't have confidence that Tony Burke would make the right decisions in those circumstances. So it was a bizarre decision by the Prime Minister to appoint him to this portfolio. And it's up to the Prime Minister to reassure the Australian people that the political interests of Tony Burke won't override the national interest.
MARKSON: Already, it seems to me that the national interest, that national security has been put at risk by the lack of concern about flying in Hamas supporters to Australia. You know, it just beggars belief. It truly does. Look, just before my show, we heard Fatima Payman speak in the Sky news mini documentary about having a wholesome country, about not having any division here. Yet, just today she supported the Greens in the Senate. They moved a motion to sanction Israel. No mention of the hostages, no mention of Hamas or condemning Hamas. Do you think we have seen from her, moves to heal division in this country, or is she doing the precise opposite?
PATERSON: Well, they're fine sentiments, but I don't think Senator Payman or the Greens have lived up to those sentiments. In fact, since the 7th October, both of them have sought every opportunity to weaponise this conflict for political purposes. Nothing is gained by this endless moving of motions in the Senate except elevating the political interests of Senator Payman and the Greens. They know before they move these motions that there is no prospect of them passing. If they wanted to pass the motions, they would word them very differently. They would include condemnations of hostage taking. They would include condemnations of Hamas. But they don't do that because this is about politics, not about bringing our country together. So I think we should look at those words from Senator Payman and others in that documentary as hollow words, as insincere words. And I think she should reflect, if she really wants to deliver those outcomes in Australia, a different approach is necessary.
MARKSON: Look, we've heard the head of ASIO say on multiple occasions now that politicians need to be careful about their language. He's effectively saying so that it doesn't
incite violence or make the situation worse, already the terror threat level has risen to probable, meaning there's more than a 50% chance of a terror attack in the next 12 months. Do you think the Greens here really need to listen to the ASIO director general's words? Because they are continually and wrongly accusing Israel of genocide, of deliberately targeting civilians, and that makes people angry when it's it couldn't be further from the truth.
PATERSON: I'm deeply concerned about this, Sharri. I think it is a very significant risk. And we've seen the increase in the terrorism threat level in this country, that people could be incited into committing an act of violence in our country in response to inflamed tensions abroad. And all of us, as political leaders have an obligation to turn down the temperature, not turn it up. I think the Greens have been easily the worst since the start of this conflict, where they have sought political advantage out of this where they have amped up conflict, rather than turned it down, where they have made baseless claims, for example, about Australia's supplying weapons to Israel in this conflict, something that is not factual. And the only reason why you would do that is if you want to rile people up, to take political advantage out of it. That is irresponsible. That is dangerous. And I fear it will end very badly.
MARKSON: Do you think maybe the boss of ASIO needs to provide a specific security briefing to the Greens, given we are seeing aggression outside the offices of politicians, that is dangerous?
PATERSON: In my experience, security briefings like that are always on offer and always available for those who want to take it up. Whether the Greens would be willing to take up a briefing like that, let alone take out the lessons from that briefing, is another question.
MARKSON: All right, James Paterson, really appreciate your time, as always thank you.
PATERSON: Thanks, Sharri.
ENDS
