January 26, 2025
ANDREW CLENNELL: Joining me live is the shadow Home Affairs Minister, James Paterson. Thanks so much for joining us this Australia Day, James. Peter Dutton announced his new frontbench yesterday. You stay in the same job and I'm told Mr. Dutton's view was you're doing a great job where you are. There are reports you wanted Foreign Affairs, who wouldn't I guess, and David Coleman won that. How do you feel about that?
JAMES PATERSON: Well, Happy Australia Day, Andrew. Peter Dutton and I had a very open conversation about the portfolio that I can have the greatest impact in. And we both agreed that Home Affairs is the place where I can do the most damage to the Labor Party between now and the election because they've failed so spectacularly when it comes to domestic national security. Whether that's boats and borders, whether that's immigration detainees or most troublingly, the antisemitic domestic terrorism crisis that we have. The truth is that serving in any national security portfolio is an immense privilege. And if I were to be appointed as the Minister for Home Affairs after the next election, that would be the greatest honour of my life.
CLENNELL: Was this a snub to Sussan Ley? Deputy normally chooses their portfolio. It's been reported she wanted Foreign Affairs.
PATERSON: Look, I've seen those media reports too, Andrew, But that's a matter between Peter and Sussan. I've got immense respect for Sussan and the political impact she has on our behalf. She's got a hell of a work ethic. She travels the breadth and depth of this country, visiting electorates far and wide, and she does an outstanding job for us and is a critical voice in the public debate. And I'm pleased to see her continue in a very senior role.
CLENNELL: And Mr. Dutton's put Jacinta Price into government efficiency. Are we going to see some Trump-style initiatives here?
PATERSON: Well, we're an Australian political party, and we are a sovereign nation, and we'll be having a range of initiatives that are what we determine are in our national interest, and Jacinta will be at the heart of finding those efficiencies and savings and rooting out the waste that the Labor Party has engaged in over the last two and a half years. Because frankly, when family budgets are stretched, what we need is some discipline in the federal budget and that has been completely absent with more than $300 billion of new spending added by this government over three budgets. We do need to rein in that wasteful and reckless spending because it is putting upward pressure on interest rates, and that is keeping inflation higher for longer than it should be.
CLENNELL: Well, you heard the Prime Minister on our program this morning, he thinks he's always been underestimated and can win this election. What do you think?
PATERSON: Well, this election will be very competitive. It will be very close. The polls are indicating that and federal elections in Australia are almost always very competitive and very close. I think as we get closer to the election, though, the choice is going to be clear. It is either going to be a returned Albanese Labor government in minority in some form of coalition with the Teals and the Greens, or it will be a Dutton Coalition majority government. I think that is the only two choices that are likely to be available to the Australian people on election day. And if they do want to get our country back on track, if they do think they cannot afford another three years like the last three, then the only choice is a change of government, and that's by voting for your Coalition candidate.
CLENNELL: And he said, the PM, he said had Mr. Dutton been in power the past three years, inflation would have been worse. He also appeared to say his promise to cut power bills by $275 at the last election was not a broken promise because the world had changed since then. What did you make of all that?
PATERSON: Well, the Prime Minister has broken a number of promises, whether it's on superannuation, whether it's on personal income tax cuts, whether it's on his $275 promise of reduced power bills. And the Reserve Bank Governor has been very clear about inflation. She has said it is a home-grown phenomenon. It is not something that's being driven from overseas any more. And it's very clear that the decisions of this government have made the inflation crisis facing Australians much worse. Again, the RBA, in their monthly minutes, regularly call out public demand. In other words, government spending, as being a contributing factor to inflation and interest rates being higher in Australia than they otherwise would be. When other like minded democracies like New Zealand and Canada and the United States and the United Kingdom have all significantly reduced their interest rates over the last year, Australia has not and Australians are paying the price for Anthony Albanese's weakness and his recklessness on public spending.
CLENNELL: The PM also said he has a tough stance on antisemitism and doesn't want to reveal the nature of those police investigations into these attacks, including whether a foreign government may or may not be involved. What do you make of that? Should he be telling us more about that? He says it could interfere with police investigations doing that.
PATERSON: Andrew, if this has been a tough response, I'd hate to see what a weak response would look like. It took the Prime Minister 15 months before he was willing to finally call a National Cabinet meeting. And the only outcome of that National Cabinet meeting was a new database. Well, I don't think a new database is going to strike fear in the hearts of people who are out there firebombing synagogues, cars, and childcare centres. And frankly, we need a much tougher response. Now, if it is true that a foreign government or a transnational terrorist organisation has been funding these attacks in Australia, it's an even bigger failure of leadership by the Prime Minister. It would be our greatest peacetime domestic security crisis that he's allowed to fester on his watch. And it is still a major failure if there's no foreign component of it. And I have not seen any evidence that there is, and if it is just domestically originated home-grown domestic terrorism targeting the Jewish community.
CLENNELL: As we head to an election campaign, James Paterson, the use of social media for advertising for political parties has never been more important. Have a look at this video the Liberal Party has posted on TikTok.
[CLIP START]
I bought a property in Egypt and what they do for you is they give you the property. That's sick. But I tried to buy a property in Australia and what they do for you is they charge you massive amounts of money. An average of nearly $1 million as Labor have caused a housing crisis.
[CLIP END]
CLENNELL: Using a popular meme, I believe. Now, Mr. Paterson, you've said before you'd like to see TikTok banned in Australia like the American ban, yet your party seems perfectly happy to use the site to try and get elected. Is there a bit of a contradiction here?
PATERSON: That's not true, Andrew. I've never advocated for a ban on TikTok. In fact, what I've said is I'd like to see a safer version of TikTok available to Australians, and I think that we should examine very closely what the US Congress has done, which is to pass a bill overwhelmingly, on a bipartisan basis, requiring the parent company of TikTok, ByteDance to divest TikTok, to remove the link between the company and the Chinese Communist Party because it can be used for foreign interference and it can be used for data harvesting. Now the Supreme Court has upheld that law, and it's the Trump administration's task now to implement that law. And President Trump has said he's seeking a deal to make sure that TikTok can remain available in the United States but in a safer way. And I think we need to closely coordinate with the Trump administration that same approach here in Australia because what I don't want to see is a safer version of TikTok available to Americans but a more dangerous version of TikTok available in Australia.
CLENNELL: And just finally, with the election of Donald Trump, people are being quoted from what they said about Trump in the past. In 2011, you tweeted about Australian trade analyst, quote, demolishing Donald Trump's economic lunacy. And in 2015, you tweeted what you said was a, quote, solid critique of Donald Trump's dangerous economic views given his threats on tariffs. Do you still think Donald Trump has dangerous economic views?
PATERSON: Well, Andrew, those tweets were from 14 years ago when I was a university student, and Donald Trump was a private citizen. He had not even run for the Republican nomination, let alone been elected as president. And it stands in stark contrast to the much stronger language used by the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister, our Home Affairs Minister, other senior ministers of the government, and our ambassador in Washington, D.C., who've engaged in a personal abuse of President Trump during his time in office and after his time in office. I would stand up, though, for Australia's national interest and Australia's trade policy. We are an open trading nation, and it is in Australia's interest that the international trading system remain free and open and that our domestic manufacturers and businesses and farmers have export opportunities all around the world. And it's critical in our engagement with the Trump administration and all other governments that we stand up for those interests. I hope the Albanese government is able to secure an exemption from any tariffs that the Trump administration proposes, as the Turnbull government was able to do, drawing on the very strong relationships we had in Washington D.C. And this will be a key test of the Albanese government. Are they able to secure the same deal for Australia that the Turnbull Government did?
CLENNELL: James Paterson, out of time. Thanks so much for your time.
PATERSON: Thanks, Andrew.
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