November 12, 2024
Tuesday 12 November 2024
Interview on ABC News Afternoon Briefing
Subjects: 23rd boat another Labor border protection failure, Senator Marco Rubio's reported selection as US Secretary of State, Bob Carr’s reckless Palestinian demands must be rejected
Greg Jennett: Now the arrival of that unauthorised boat on to Croker Island, which we discussed there with Senator McCarthy, brings to 23 the number of suspected people smuggling boats to have made it to Australia in the last couple of years or so. We spoke to Shadow Home Affairs Minister James Paterson about it and some appointments currently being made by the Trump administration's transition team in the US. James Paterson joined us from Adelaide. James Paterson, welcome back to the program. Now, we had reports out of the Northern Territory this afternoon that four men believed to be foreigners have landed on Croker Island and have been found there by traditional owners. I think there is some reason to believe that they have been involved in a people smuggling venture, at least according to ABC reporting. What do you understand of the circumstances?
James Paterson: Well, Greg, if this people smuggling venture is confirmed, it will be the 23rd attempted people smuggling venture since the last election and it will be the eighth which has successfully evaded Australian Border Force and made it to the Australian mainland or territory. And unfortunately that is no surprise because on this government's watch aerial surveillance has crashed 21% and maritime patrol days are down 16%. And if you don't provide the aerial and maritime surveillance and patrol days that you need, then people smugglers can sneak through and they can make it all the way to the Australian mainland. And the problem with that is it sends a misleading impression to desperate people that you can risk getting on a boat and you might be successful. And we need to make sure that they don't think that's the case.
Greg Jennett: Do you observe a pattern of late that landings further to the east are becoming the norm now? I mean, Croker Island is substantially further to the east than, say, Ashmore Reef.
James Paterson: They have in the past from time to time been arrivals in Cape York, but that has been relatively rare. And you're right, this is very far to the east. It is much more traditional for boats to arrive further west off the West Australian coast. I think people smugglers are trying their luck. They are exploring potential vulnerabilities and gaps in our surveillance. And unfortunately it appears in this case they've been successful and made it through that surveillance and onto the Australian mainland as they have on seven other previous occasions. And I am very worried that people smugglers will use this to market to desperate people to encourage them to pay the fees to get on boats. And it, of course, follows a very significant uptick in illegal fishing in these regions as well, which I fear has been passed back in the form of intelligence to people smugglers.
Greg Jennett: And last one on this, are you satisfied that Indonesian authorities are cooperating or doing all that they can to stem this at source?
James Paterson: Yeah, I don't have any criticism of Indonesian authorities, from everything I understand they are cooperating in the usual way with Australia and being a very good partner in this. My criticism is of the Albanese government and I've been warning them for two years now that their failure to deliver this adequate aerial surveillance and maritime patrol days was going to open up vulnerabilities and was going to allow people smugglers and boats to slip through and that's exactly what's happened. So Tony Burke really should have had this as the number one item on his to do list as minister. He hasn't put the focus on this that it needs and I fear that we are back in those days when he was last minister in the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd era.
Greg Jennett: All right let's move on. A couple of questions on the major talking point of the world in many ways. The Trump transition team is taking shape at the moment, James, and it's widely touted that Marco Rubio might be the pick for secretary of state. Does he strike you as someone that Australia could work with and whose views on China align with this country's?
James Paterson: I'll be very pleased if the reports are correct that Marco Rubio is to be appointed Secretary of State in President Trump's second administration. Senator Rubio is a great friend of Australia. He's a strong supporter of AUKUS and he's someone who believes, like I do, that the Indo-Pacific is the key national security and international security theatre for democracies like Australia and the United States, and that all of our focus should be in that region in hopefully preventing conflict from breaking out. And the only way you can prevent conflict from breaking out, in President Trump's words, is peace through strength. We have to deter Xi Jinping from doing something reckless in the Taiwan Straits or the East China Sea or the South China Sea. And Senator Rubio understands that innately and was well ahead of the curve. I've met with him previously in my capacity as chairman of the Intelligence Committee. He's a previous vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and he's got a great interest and affection for Australia and so if that appointment is confirmed, it will be very good news for us.
Greg Jennett: Yes definitely not confirmed at this stage, but in your dealings with him and your read of Senator Rubio, what conclusions would you draw about his disposition towards AUKUS?
James Paterson: I think he'll be very positive towards AUKUS. He's voted for key legislation to enable AUKUS in the Senate and spoken out in favour of the arrangement in previous discussions. He's someone who believes that the threat that we face from the Chinese Communist Party is the existential threat for our region and the world and he wants to do everything to support allies and friends in the region to help prevent that from turning into a catastrophe that no one should want to see and turning into a conflict. So we should be very well able to get along with Senator Rubio if he becomes Secretary of State. I hope that the Albanese government has good links into Senator Rubio and his team. I hope they've been meeting with him and his team. Last week they were briefing that we need not worry about a Trump administration because they had good relations with Mike Pompeo. Of course, Mike Pompeo is a great friend of Australia and well known to many Australians, but he's not going to be serving in the Trump administration, as the President has announced. So I really hope that the Albanese government's engagement strategy with Trump world went deeper than just Mike Pompeo.
Greg Jennett: Yes, speaking of Trump world, they've selected a firebrand border czar in Tom Homan who's duty will be to deal with mass deportations of unauthorised immigrants on the southern border. In the past, perhaps reluctantly, Donald Trump did agree to complete the resettlement of around 1200 refugees into the US working with Australia. Now, I accept this is a speculative question here, James Paterson, but if asked, should Australia be prepared to assist the Trump administration with the resettlement of any people deported by it?
James Paterson: You're right, Greg. It is quite a speculative question and probably not something that would be helpful for me to speculate about publicly without any concrete proposal on the table. All I can say is I understand why the Trump administration is putting a priority on border security. The border security that Americans have voted for and expect from their government is the kind of border security which Australians would expect from our own government. And in the case of the United States, across the southern border in recent years, there have been tens if not hundreds of thousands of migrants illegally crossing. So I'm not surprised that this will be a focus of the new administration.
Greg Jennett: Of course, I only ask that question in light of the fact that so many people have observed that Donald Trump is transactional by nature. Look, let's move on. Bob Carr, James Paterson you'd be aware, earlier today the former Labor foreign minister suggested that it might be necessary for the Albanese government to recognise a Palestinian state this side of the next Australian federal election. That is a long held position of Mr Carr. Why wouldn't that be worthy of consideration if there is to be a grand new bargain in the Middle East led in some way by President-elect Trump?
James Paterson: Well, I think it's very telling, Greg, that Bob Carr's deadline for this is not events in the Middle East. It's not negotiations between the Palestinian Authority and Israel. It's not even the defeat of Hamas or the return of the hostages or the removal of Hezbollah as a threat. His deadline is a political deadline and it's the impending Australian election, and it is an insight into the way that Labour people and influential former Labour figures like Bob Carr think about this issue through a domestic political lens, not through Australia's national interest. It would be utterly reckless, particularly with President Trump returning to the White House for Australia to break with the Americans and break with our own longstanding bipartisan policy on Israel that we should only recognise a Palestinian state after the successful negotiation of a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. And that is what Penny Wong has floated, that the government is willing to contemplate pre-emptive unilateral recognition of a Palestinian state which does not exist today and has no reasonable prospect of existing until that peace process can happen. So in my view, it would be utterly reckless foreign policy initiative and I hope the Foreign Minister is able to immediately rule it out.
Greg Jennett: And leave it with us. We'll chase that one down with Labour figures when we get the opportunity. James Paterson, we have covered a fair bit of ground today. We thank you for doing so and we'll see you in Canberra before too long.
James Paterson: Thanks, Greg.
ENDS
