January 22, 2025
SALLY SARA: The Australian Federal Police is investigating whether the criminals responsible for a recent spate of anti-Semitic attacks are being financed and directed from overseas. The revelation came late yesterday as an urgent meeting of National Cabinet agreed to establish an electronic database to record and track anti-Semitic incidents across the country. The federal Opposition wants mandatory minimum sentences for anti-Semitic offences included in new laws against violent hate speech due to be debated when Parliament resumes next month. Liberal Senator James Paterson is the shadow Minister for Home Affairs and joins me now. Senator Paterson, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
JAMES PATERSON: Good morning.
SARA: Before we get to these latest developments overnight, Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Sharren Haskel has told the ABC that the Australian Federal Government has been too slow to crack down on repeated anti-Semitic attacks. What is your reaction to her comments?
PATERSON: Unfortunately, I think that's undeniably true. And the best example of that is that the Prime Minister took 14 months to call a National Cabinet. Peter Dutton first wrote to the Prime Minister in November 2023, recognising the early signs of a growing anti-Semitism crisis and said, could you please convene a National Cabinet to coordinate a national response to this crisis? And it was only yesterday, after months and months of pressure and other appeals, including from the anti-Semitism envoy, Jillian Segal, that the Prime Minister caved in, basically dragged kicking and screaming into convening a National Cabinet.
SARA: We've had new indications from the AFP that they're investigating whether foreign based actors have been funding and directing some of these anti-Semitic attacks carried out by people here in Australia. Does this change our understanding of what is unfolding locally?
PATERSON: Well, it's a gravely serious claim for the Australian Federal Police to make and I think the Australian people are entitled to more information from the Prime Minister today about what he knows about this, when he was briefed about it and what action the government is taking about it. This either means, if it is true, if it is confirmed, that a transnational terrorist organisation is sponsoring attacks in Australia or potentially that a foreign government is engaging in state-sponsored terror targeting the Jewish community. Now to put claims like this out there would make it the most serious domestic security crisis in peacetime in Australia's history and will cause incredible alarm within the Jewish community. So a lot more information is required about this claim, and a lot more comfort needs to be given about what is being done in response to it. You cannot put information out this partially as has been done so far.
SARA: And to be clear, the AFP is saying it has intelligence on this rather than evidence at this stage. Special Operation Avalite is investigating 15 serious allegations of anti-Semitism since it formed in December. Do you have full confidence in the way that the AFP is handling these issues?
PATERSON: I would have had greater confidence if a special operation like Avalite was stood up much earlier. There was very good reason to think that it was necessary much earlier. In fact, I directly appealed to the Australian Federal Police and the Albanese government repeatedly in Senate estimates and other forums over the last 15 months since the 7th of October to take this anti-Semitism crisis more seriously and to act on it. It should not have taken the bombing of the Adass Israel synagogue in Melbourne for this to be stood up. But really, it's political leadership that has failed here, not our professional men and women in uniform who are dedicated and patriotic and doing the best they can in the circumstances.
SARA: On the AFP website it says there are 21 AFP police analysts assigned to this operation. Is that enough?
PATERSON: Well, what I would have liked to have seen out of National Cabinet yesterday is a more joined up response from state and federal Police, a task force between the state and federal police, as well as serious penalties like mandatory minimum sentences would have sent a much stronger signal. Instead, the only thing we got out of National Cabinet was a new database. I mean, I'm not sure how a new database is going to deter people from blowing up synagogues, cars and now even childcare centres and is going to tackle the seriousness of the crisis that we have.
SARA: To be clear, a childcare centre wasn't blown up. It was an arson attack that occurred. Even so, how do you see that incident yesterday on the scale of events that have been unfolding?
PATERSON: Well, I think the distinction you're drawing there is a pretty specious one, to be honest. If you have a look at the damage it's done to the childcare centre, it is as if it has been bombed. It was firebombed. And just like it, Adass Israel Synagogue in Melbourne, which I have been to and walked in, has been absolutely destroyed, and that has the effect of using accelerants in the way that these offenders are. It's a very sophisticated attack and one we should treat as terrorism. The fact that our Prime Minister can't use that language and treat this with the seriousness it requires is more evidence of his weakness as Prime Minister and explains why we have the crisis that we do on our hands today.
SARA: AFP Commissioner Reece Kershaw says the motivation of this violence is to fuel anti-Semitism. Do politicians of all stripes, need to do more to promote social cohesion, in your view?
PATERSON: Yes, I think promoting social cohesion is an important aspect of our response, and we do need community leaders also to join us in stepping up and condemning these attacks and urging calm. But deterrence is also a critical part of response. It's the reason why we want mandatory minimum sentences of at least six years for terrorism offences and at least one year for displaying a prohibited hate symbol like a listed terrorist organisation flag. Because right now I think the perpetrators behind these attacks clearly don't fear the consequences of their behaviour. And until they see that there are meaningful consequences for their behaviour, I fear this is going to continue and even escalate.
SARA: What evidence is there that mandatory minimum sentences for these kinds of offences would make a difference, do you think?
PATERSON: There are three reasons why we incarcerate people. One is to act as a deterrence, to discourage people from doing it. The second is to protect the community by taking them off the streets for a lengthy period of time. And the third is to give a sense of justice to victims so that they have confidence that the law and order system will deal with this crisis rather than them taking it into their own hands. Each of those three reasons is a compelling reason to put a mandatory minimum sentence in for these crimes. Right now, there is no minimum sentence for a federal terrorism offence, whereas there are minimum sentences for other serious violent crimes at the federal level, for example, including child sex offences, which is also six years. And we think because this crisis has been allowed to get so out of control on Anthony Albanese’s watch, the best and only thing we can do is send a very strong message that there'll be serious consequences for anyone who is caught.
SARA: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the shadow Home Affairs Minister, Senator James Paterson. Senator, under these proposed laws, someone carrying the flag of Hezbollah or Hamas could receive a minimum one year jail term. Some of the accused carrying those flags at protests have been teenagers. Is a one year jail term appropriate in those cases, in your view?
PATERSON: Well, the only teenager that I'm aware of that has been charged with this is a 19-year-old, and a 19-year-old is an adult, and an adult faces the full consequences of the law as they should. And I think a clear message does need to be sent because for weeks in and out in our major cities, particularly in Melbourne and Sydney, the law of the parliament and the law of the land has been flouted openly by people who think it's okay to espouse support for listed terrorist organisations. And the parliament passed this legislation unanimously in December two years ago, 2023, to make it clear how seriously we regarded these offences. And yet, at the moment, we don't have people fearing the consequences of these offences. So again, we think a strong message needs to be sent that there are consequences if you want to espouse support for a listed terrorist organisation in Australia.
SARA: What do you think the second Donald Trump presidency will mean for relations between Australia and the United States, particularly surrounding AUKUS?
PATERSON: Well, I think Australia is among the best positions of any U.S. ally to have a continuing strong relationship with the United States under a Trump presidency for a couple of reasons. We know that President Trump has an affection for Australia and admires Australia. We know that many people in his administration, in senior posts, including the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, is a fan and a supporter and a friend of Australia. So we should have a good starting point. And we proved in the first Trump presidency that we can navigate his politics and his approach to foreign affairs successfully in a way that strengthens our relationship. This will be an important test for the Albanese government, particularly because the Prime Minister and many of his senior ministers, including the Foreign Minister, have said unwise and undiplomatic things about President Trump during his time in office and after his time in office. And it is up to them to demonstrate that they can work with him in our national interest.
SARA: The United States has made some changes to the way its government will be dealing with a number of issues. And President Donald Trump has said that the government's position will be that there are two genders, not three or more, in the United States as far as the government is concerned. Is that a position that you would support in Australia?
PATERSON: Look, that's not my focus or my priority. We've got a domestic terrorism crisis in the country right now, and I'm focused on that. And the cost of living crisis is the overwhelming concern of the Australian people. And the overwhelming feedback that I receive when I'm out in the community.
SARA: Finally, with Simon Birmingham retiring from politics, the Coalition needs a new foreign affairs spokesperson, are you interested in the role?
PATERSON: I have said to Peter Dutton, I'm happy to serve in any role that he would like me to do. There is a lot of work to do in frankly all the national security portfolios to clean up the mess of this government, whether it's foreign affairs, defence or home affairs. And I'm very honoured to have the role that I already have under Peter Dutton's leadership and I'm happy to continue in that, but it's a matter for him.
SARA: James Paterson, thank you very much.
PATERSON: Thanks for having me.
ENDS
