February 24, 2025
SHARRI MARKSON: Welcome back. Well, let's return now to Tony Burke's citizenship scandal in marginal seats across the country. Now, Shadow Home Affairs Minister James Paterson thinks this could possibly be in breach of the rules. And if that's the case, then this is a serious black mark against the Labor government, who promised to do things differently with more integrity when they came to office. I spoke to James Paterson, who stepped out of Senate estimates to do this interview in the past hour. Here he is. James Paterson, thank you so much for your time. You've been interrogating the Albanese government about the citizenship ceremonies, and Senate estimates today. Do you agree with Dai Le that the government has lied about this? And how is this in breach of the ministerial code?
JAMES PATERSON: Well it seems very clear, Sharri, that at the very least, it's in breach of the citizenship code, which requires that citizenship ceremonies be strictly non-partisan, that they be apolitical, that they're not commercial in any way. Because what we've learned today in Senate estimates is a couple of things. Number one, it's only metropolitan councils that have been prioritised for their constituents to have this express citizenship granted, not regional councils. So if the Minister is true to his word that this is about providing people with the right to vote before an election why do residents in metropolitan seats have that right, but not residents in regional seats? Secondly, we've learned that of the 25 ceremonies scheduled, 21 of them are scheduled in Labor-held seats where the local Labor member will be invited to officiate at the ceremony. Now, I think that's hardly a coincidence. And thirdly, we've learned that the Minister for Home Affairs has taken it upon himself to invite members of parliament who are Labor members of parliament, to attend these ceremonies, even when it is not held in their local area. But he hasn't extended that same courtesy to members of other parties like Dai Le or the member for Hughes, Jenny Ware, who had constituents who were receiving their citizenship at these ceremonies but were not invited by the government to be there. I think this is now very clear: this is a political process, and that's a shameful abuse of the citizenship process.
MARKSON: What needs to be done now? Should there be an inquiry into this? And are you concerned that this could swing the election?
PATERSON: I think Tony Burke is certainly doing it with the hope of swinging the election. If you look at the gleeful social media posts from Labor MPs like Jerome Laxale in the ultra marginal seat of Bennelong, where he's there to greet 300 of his new constituents, and the Liberal candidate is not offered that same opportunity. Or Tu Le, the candidate who's running against Dai Le in Fowler, has had that opportunity, but Dai Le hasn't. It's very clear that this is for partisan political purposes. I think we will have to get to the bottom of this, particularly if Tony Burke is not willing to be upfront about this. I put a series of questions on notice to the Department of Home Affairs that they weren't able to answer today. I'll be scrutinising those answers very closely, and I hope they come very promptly because if the Prime Minister calls the election and the parliament is prorogued, they won't have to answer those questions. But we must get to the bottom of this.
MARKSON: We're probably never going to see those answers because we're looking at an election being called in a couple of weeks, and they're probably not going to get back to you within that time frame, so they'll just escape proper scrutiny, transparency and accountability here. James, I also want to ask you about this issue with taxpayer funding going towards organisations that platform hate preachers. Now, one example Sheikh Ibrahim Dadoun, he was the hate preacher who famously said he was elated the day after the October 7 massacre. He's one of the imams at United Muslims Australia. The Australian reports today that it received more than $3 million in federal funding last year. Now, one of the outcomes from our antisemitism summit last week is that organisations that promote hatred should not receive government funding, and if they're registered charities, they should have their charity status revoked. Do you agree with this?
PATERSON: I completely agree with this, Sharri. It is totally inappropriate for taxpayer's money to be going to pay the salaries or wages of hate preachers, and it's not going to improve social cohesion in this country. But I have further bad news, which is that I've just returned from asking questions to the Department of Home Affairs about this, and they have said that all of the evidence I exposed in the last round of estimates of hate preachers and other extremists receiving taxpayer funds. Despite that, they've not rescinded one grant, and despite that, they haven't changed the way they conduct due diligence for the next upcoming round of grants for social cohesion. So it's highly likely that we are again going to see taxpayer's money go to organisations and individuals who have glorified terrorism, who engaged in antisemitism and have undermined social cohesion. I mean, only the Labor Party would think you improve social cohesion by giving taxpayers money to hate preachers.
MARKSON: It's absolutely unacceptable. And we've covered the excellent work that you did in exposing that on this show repeatedly. I just want to ask you about the horrific scenes of Hamas parading the coffins of the Bibas family. And that was before it was revealed that Shiri Bibas wasn't there at all. Her remains have now been returned. James, this has been the most grotesque spectacle. It's upset everyone. Australia, unlike other countries around the world, hasn't illuminated our buildings in orange. Should we be doing that? And what's your view on the radicalisation problem in Gaza?
PATERSON: Sharri, as a small gesture of solidarity, I'm wearing my orange tie for your programme tonight to discuss this because we should express solidarity with the Bibas family, all Israelis, and the Jewish community globally, who are deeply and understandably distressed by this horrific event. I mean, it's bad enough already that we knew that Hamas was in the business of kidnapping babies. Now we know that they're not only in the business of kidnapping them and holding them hostage, but brutally murdering babies, nine months old, four years old children. No one who embraces or supports or defends Hamas should be welcome in this country, and no one who embraces or supports or defends Hamas should be receiving taxpayers money for government grants. Unfortunately, one of the organisations that I put to the government tonight does have someone who has praised Yahia Sinwar publicly as a director of that organisation. And it just shows the depths to which we have sunk as a country that that is not something that is bipartisan and agreed that people of that nature should never receive taxpayers money and that praise for listed terrorist organisations who engage in these despicable acts should be completely beyond the pale. But that's where we are under Anthony Albanese and the Labor Party and we will fix it if we win the next election.
MARKSON: And just that final question. Do you think it's disappointing that Australia hasn't, like so many countries around the world, shown solidarity by illuminating one of our main buildings in the orange light?
PATERSON: Yes, Sharri, it is incredibly disappointing. It's the least we could do. It's a small act of solidarity, and when so many other countries who traditionally have not been as strong supporters of Israel as Australia has been in international forums can find a way to do that. We should find a way to do that. I think the Prime Minister is being hard-hearted here, and really, he should rise to the occasion. We should all agree that kidnapping, torturing and killing babies is something that is so beyond the pale that we would condemn it in an unreserved way and show our solidarity with those victims.
MARKSON: Yeah. Of course. Just finally, the Albanese government downplayed the seriousness of China flexing its military power so close to our shores. Do you think their response is naive? Because this is clearly, anyone can see it, this is clearly an act of aggression from China.
PATERSON: I'm very troubled by the Prime Minister 's apparent lack of understanding of the seriousness of this. We have the People's Liberation Army Navy for the first time in the Tasman Sea, conducting a live fire exercise for which they provided almost no notice and which required commercial airliners to divert their traffic in order to protect the passengers on board. There is no parallel to be drawn with Australia's activities in the South China Sea or anywhere else. We do not conduct ourselves this way, and it is clearly designed to send a strong message to us. It's clearly designed to intimidate us. Unfortunately, the Prime Minister has failed that test by downplaying this and providing excuses for this and comparing it wrongly with our conduct, which is to a much higher standard in international waters.
MARKSON: All right, James, we'll let you get back to grilling the officials and Senate estimates. And thank you so much for popping out to do this interview. Appreciate your time.
ENDS
